Project:General Discussions

This page is meant to be a hub for general discussions about this wiki, it's use and it's editing. Feel free to use this page to note wiki problems and leave messages for the community. Feel free to add/revise sections as necessary and move items that have been completed to the "Completed" section below.

Odd Quote Issue
Just noticed an issue with the page Category:Published_by_Ateam, and Category:Developed_by_Ateam where a quotation mark oddly appears in the category. Anyone have a clue as to what's going on there or how to resolve it? Kolano (talk) 06:08, 6 August 2013 (CEST)

Global Problems behavior
Ok, I worked on it today and now I have something to show to you, so we can decide if the template is going to work that way and so see if everyone agree. First of, the template is still WIP, so, the current code is messy and the documentation is missing. I'm having a lot of issues with empty space, but I'll try to fix that soon. Right now, the template are working this way:
 * Global Problems of all VC pages are shown in the Main Virtual Console page.
 * Specific problems of that platform are shown in the list of that platform.
 * In the lists, the Global Problems section is ALWAYS shown, even if no problems exist.
 * In the game pages, the "Global Problems" section are shown only if at least 1 global VC problem or 1 platform specific global problem exist. Otherwise this section is hidden.
 * The Global Problems section in a game page first list the platform specific issues and after that the global VC issues of GlobalProblems/VirtualConsole, like this:

Active platform-specific issue 2
[...]

Active global VC issue 2
[...]

Fixed platform-specific issue 2
[...]

Fixed global VC issue 2
[...]

Fixed global VC issue N
It's a little redundant but this design make sure that all Dolphin users will see these problems, even people who jumps directly in the game page through the Wiki context menu present in Dolphin itself. Furthermore, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask is already using the global template and I'm going to remove that "test issue" from the VC global templates soon, I need it for testing. Before committing this to the other platforms, I'll (try to) fix all spacing problems and make the template source more readable, but I need feedback here, any objection or suggestion? Jhonn (talk)
 * Forgot something, the placement: Global Problems should be before or after the Problems section? Jhonn (talk)
 * Before. The Problems section for most VC games will be blank, and 9 times out of 10 it will just be the Global Problems. Furthermore, it mirrors how it is on the game lists. Oh, and don't forget the helpers for new users. - MaJoR (talk) 06:32, 10 August 2013 (CEST)

So Jhonn, finished? It seems like you got it; it's fully functional and very easy to use. As far as I'm concerned, add documentation and you're done. Anything else you want to do with it before we put it everywhere? - MaJoR (talk) 10:18, 12 August 2013 (CEST)
 * Yep, finished... I'll add the search-and-replace strings in Project:To Do, so you could ask delroth for the script. If the automation fails, then tell us and we go in the manual way. Jhonn (talk)

Global Problems Template
Splitting this to get more attention. Well, I started coding the global problems template for VC games, and before I continue the work, I need to get opinion of you guys regarding how we'll handle the universal problems in every VC game page. First off, I fell this necessary because some users just jump directly in the game page through context menu option in the emulator or by the forum thread, so, we need to add the universal problems in the game page too. Regardless of what design we choose, we'll need to add a template call in every VC game page (yes, it's a booooring job that has to be done -- at least there aren't to much VC game pages created). But before I continue working in the template, we need to decide how we'll show this, and I have two suggestions: first, calling the template without an argument (eg. in a game page) create a section named "Global Problems", and parse the problems for that system. The second one, is adding the template call after the specific problems, this way, the global problems will just appear together with the specific problems. Do you guys have any other suggestion? What you prefer? I vote for the first one... Jhonn (talk)

I could ask delroth I asked delroth about making a script for putting the global problems template into every VC game page. As soon as we get thing settled on how it should be used, he should be able to commit the global problems to every VC game page. To that end we might want to double check as make sure all the virtual console games are in Category:Virtual Console, as that's what I was going to suggest he use (unless you guys have a better idea?). As for the options, I vote for the first one. A "global problems" section in each game would be better; having the global problems inline could cause some confusion. - MaJoR (talk) 09:35, 3 August 2013 (CEST) - Ok, if we're going to use the first suggestion, we'll need to add the following in every VC game page:

This way I can code the template to only show the Global Problems section if there are global problems for that platform so I can get rid of the  -- any objections?

About the automation, I'm unsure if we can use Category:Virtual Console, because the text above changes from platform to platform... We need to replace with N64 in N64 VC game pages, SNES in SNES, etc. Do we have category based on platform for the VC titles? If this doesn't work, I'm ok in doing this manually (we haven't a lot of VC game pages created, anyway)

Furthermore, the global problems will be shown before or after the specific problems? I think before is better, so we have Global Problems section (it'll show only if there are at least one global problem for that platform), and after that, the regular Problems section like we have now. What do you guys think? Jhonn (talk)

You're right. Fortunately, every VC game has two categories: Category:Virtual Console games and the system category, say, Category:SNES games. We can use that to pick between the platforms. And I agree with you: putting global problems before the standard problems is probably the best option. Well, it seems like we agree, I don't know where Kolano is though... Well, I'd prefer to wait until Kolano chimes in. Or at least just wait a couple days then go with it.

Well, once we get everything settled, I can send delroth an email about the script. Or perhaps it's better if you do it Jhonn? You are more involved with the template. - MaJoR (talk) 04:36, 4 August 2013 (CEST)
 * Well, I'll just wait a bit more to get Kolano opinion and then finish the template. After that we see how we'll handle the migration... Jhonn (talk)


 * I'm fine with the plan here. Though having some automated way of updating the VC pages would be nice, really there are rather few VC pages in total as of yet (only ~80), so a manual update wouldn't be too hard. Kolano (talk) 08:39, 4 August 2013 (CEST)

Alright, everyone seems fine with it, so I'm going to send the email to delroth. I'll recommend he use the system categories to know what to put where, and tell him to place it above the problems section. If anyone wants to do it manually they can just do it first. - MaJoR (talk) 06:13, 6 August 2013 (CEST)

Recent Discussions
Below is listed only what was discussed last month. You can search the archive for what was discussed since General Discussions page was created.

Universal problems are buried
I know VC titles are pretty low on the totem pole, but they are pretty cool to play in Dolphin. That said, they are kind of a crapshoot. There are a lot of problems with these games. NES, SNES, Genesis, they all have universal issues spanning every game. But uh, the universal problems are only on the system pages. The virtual console page shows every title, and people just click the game in that and boom. It's convenient, but no one goes to the system pages where the universal problems are. No one ever sees the universal problems. So, I have two solutions I'd like to propose to fix this.


 * 1. A grid of buttons for systems on the Virtual Console page, sort of like the mainpage's. That way people can easily access pages for systems, and see the universal problems and stuff. Of course I'll have to dust off that gamepage project and get them up to snuff, but eh, I can do that.
 * 2. A universal issues template. Considering it would only have to copy paste text, it should be pretty simple. The only issue I can forsee is integrating it in with the layout of the pages (like how various problems have links in the nav). Might be worth ignoring that however. But yea, ideally, all we'd have to do is put onto all the SNES game pages, and bam, we have a super easy way to change the universal problems across the board.

Any thoughts on these ideas? For or against? - MaJoR (talk) 20:09, 5 March 2013 (CET)


 * Hm, I liked... I can help with the templates, and if we change the main Virtual Console page to grid of buttons (like the main page), I can delete some crappy templates we've around here (some unfinished work that I didn't touch in the last 2 years -- completely useless now). Also, since we're going to do major changes in the main Virtual Console, we could implement also an infobox with common information about the service, like the infobox we got in GameCube and Wii page. Regardless of what we do, I'm in with this whole thing - Jhonn (talk) 22:29, 5 March 2013 (CET)


 * I'd also be on board for both changes. Sub-pages for VC systems will eliminate some of the template issues there (i.e. one can't edit the lists from the main page), and generating {{{{universalproblems}} templates will allow universal issues to be universally shown (though some special handling may be needed to get the edit links right). I'd also suggest adding sub-links below the "Virtual Console" link in the sidebar for the system pages, which would make them more quickly accessible. Kolano (talk) 00:43, 6 March 2013 (CET)

I hadn't forgotten about this, I just hadn't gotten around to implementing it. That ends now :D. First up is making the Virtual Console list use thumbnails. See Virtual Console/sandbox1. There are a couple of things I'd like you guys' input on. Random block of text so my signature isn't in the bullet points and it's easier to comment beneath me. - MaJoR (talk) 18:34, 19 July 2013 (CEST)
 * Thumbnail arrangement - I took a very different approach here than what the main page does. I really like it. It's much more flexible, able to span all of a giant widescreen monitor or compress down to be easy to use on a phone in portrait. And it matches the nature of the text. I like it so much I'd like to use it on the mainpage if possible. What do you guys think? I could always go with what the mainpage does instead (centered, 5x2 arrangement).
 * Arcade versus Virtual Console Arcade - Nintendo calls it the "Virtual Console Arcade", but here on the wiki it's always been just "Arcade". Any objections to changing it to Virtual Console Arcade? I'd rather like to do that.
 * The Platforms template lacks a lot of options that I could use. See Virtual Console. Any objections if I add a whole bunch?

The revised VC page looks nice...
 * It may be better if the images were centered rather than right aligned. I think it should be possible to set that up and still have them flow to an arbitrary width.
 * I had generally preferred to just use "Arcade" since that better aligns with our naming of the other platforms (i.e. it's not "Virtual Console Sega Master System"), but if you want to align with the Nintendo naming that's fine with me.
 * Not quite clear what other options you are after, we seem to cover most of what's used on the Wikipedia sidebar...
 * Launch date would seem to be equivalent to our "Retail availability"
 * The "platform" option seems pointless for us, since we'll only cover Wii VC titles.
 * We have a website option

Kolano (talk) 17:17, 20 July 2013 (CEST)


 * NICE! I had wanted to center it, but I didn't know how to center it while keeping the flexible width. Thanks. Any problems with applying this to the main page? - MaJoR (talk) 19:11, 20 July 2013 (CEST)


 * Done Kolano (talk) 21:52, 20 July 2013 (CEST)

- I liked the changes. For me we already can take the new page out of the sandbox and replace the older one. For the Arcade vs Virtual Console Arcade, I also prefer just "Arcade". Furthermore, the new grid we're using in Virtual Console and Main page could be tweaked a bit more so all of them use the same size.

Since we started changing the things related to virtual console pages and that I'm getting my vacation soon, the chances of starting the creation of the global problems template this week are pretty high, but I'm not sure how they'll work. Before I start, let me expose what I'll try to code (and let me know of any objection):


 * In the main page VC we'll have a simple call to {{globalproblems}} . This call will show the global problems (like we have now).
 * In every subpage (N64, SNES, etc.) we'll have a simple call to {{globalproblems| }} . This call will show the global problems of that specific platform.
 * (Just an idea right now) In every VC game page, we'll have a call to the system, like the item above... This way we show the global problems in the game page too. Im not sure in this item, maybe we get too much redundancy?

Let'me know what you guys think, I'll do my best to make this template this week... Jhonn (talk)


 * Well, I disagree with you guys on the arcade, as "Virtual Console Arcade" is an exception to the systems rule, but alright, I won't fight on it. I have no idea what I'll do with that page though, if I can't use the virtual console arcade thumbnail and description... Anyway, as for the VC page, I'll go ahead and port it over. I don't know what to do about the grid size problem. I tried a bunch of stuff and didn't really get anywhere; it's still slightly off. Any suggestions? Lastly, the global problems template: You didn't mention where the editing of these problems takes place. I assume it would be in template:globalproblems? The template has all the systems global problems in one place, and you can edit them all there? As for having universal problems on each gamepage, we'll have to talk about that. It is reduntant, but without it users that just do a search to bring up games (a very common practice) would never see the global problems. I'm in favor of it (if we can get it to work well), so let's see what Kolano thinks and go from there. - MaJoR (talk) 05:27, 22 July 2013 (CEST)


 * Oh yea, almost forgot. I'm not going to mess with the virtual console ratings templates. I know the plan is to make it so you can just hit edit a VC system page and edit it from there, just like you can on the Wii and GC pages, but uh, I'm afraid that if I do it I'm going to break everything. And honestly, with the compatibility page on the main site linking to those templates, it probably will regardless. When changing it double check the main page's compatibility page, and if they break send a PM to delroth about it, or let me know and I'll tell him. - MaJoR (talk) 05:40, 22 July 2013 (CEST)

- The VC ratings templates can (and probably will) be deprecated as soon as we merge the new page from sandbox, because the only functionality they provided was the master list in our old VC page (that is result of unfinished work: ugly and can't be easily sorted). I can do the move, but I prefer to wait the new VC page getting out of the sandbox. After that, the lists would work the same way of GC and Wii lists.

About the global problems, yes, we add the problems one time in {{tl|globalproblems}} and the template code does the linking. We can have sections for problems of every platform and global problems all in the main {{tl|globalproblems}} or have subsections for every platform ({{tl|globalproblems/NES}}, {{tl|globalproblems/N64}}, etc -- like what we do with navigation template). Jhonn (talk) - Kolano (talk) 18:58, 22 July 2013 (CEST)
 * The VC page needs a revision to keep the centering appropriate when part of the grid overlaps the sidebar. Should be similar to changes applied for similar reasons to the Version Compatibility graphs.
 * If we reduce the padding there to 2px, we probably should do so on the home page too.

MediaWiki upgrade
Hey everyone. Working on upgrading MediaWiki in order to keep up with the latest version. I'm also going to work on a DB engine migration soonish (in the next few hours). Ignore the errors you see for the next 12h. If you notice some errors 12h from now, please let me know and I'll do my best to fix them ASAP. delroth (talk) 22:16, 18 June 2013 (CEST)
 * After 3h spent moving data from MySQL to PostgreSQL and fixing errors (seriously, that DB had so much crap in it... constraints were completely broken because MySQL did not enforce them), everything should be working again. If you notice any error, please send me an email (delroth@gmail.com), I might not look at this page. delroth (talk) 01:27, 19 June 2013 (CEST)
 * And if it's a design/visual issue, try to Ctrl+F5 and Ctrl+R before reporting the error. delroth (talk) 01:32, 19 June 2013 (CEST)

Started noticing errors when updating images on the site. Some examples: I saw some SQL related errors when I updated BillysBootCampWii.jpg, but couldn't replicate them. Kolano (talk) 10:20, 20 June 2013 (CEST)
 * http://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=File:ZumbaFitnessCoreWii.jpg
 * http://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=File:BillysBootCampWii.jpg
 * http://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=File:CrashOfTheTitansWii.jpg
 * Fixed delroth (talk) 13:50, 29 June 2013 (CEST)

Also: started to move everything Dolphin related over SSL. All accesses to wiki.dolphin-emu.org should now be automatically redirected to https. If you notice any problem caused by that, please let me know (email). delroth (talk) 13:50, 29 June 2013 (CEST)

uDraw Wiimote / Inputs Handling
I read a bunch of reviews on the udraw games, and they all appear to be the same: The wiimote is not used any at all in the udraw games, it only provides power and connectivity. There is another accessory that works this way: the classic controller. Throughout the wiki, the classic controller is alone, and shown as just "Classic Controller" even though it requires a wiimote to power and provide connectivity. So, for that reason, I believe the udraw games should only have the udraw gametablet in the controller section. Any objections? - MaJoR (talk) 01:41, 21 May 2013 (CEST)

Not sure. Regarding the Classic Controller, I'd kind of want to list the Wii Remote as well as the Classic Controller. That seems to be the way it's handled now outside of a few Virtual Console titles, though that may be due those games providing Wii Remote input too. I do apologize about renaming GameTablet to just Tablet, which I did to align with the regex's in infobox that pick up on the string "uDraw Tablet". Since noticing it's official name is the uDraw GameTablet I feel it should be named that way, but didn't want to muck around with all the related pages last night (it is on my "to do" list though).

In general since, per my current understanding, even if one has a uDraw Tablet you also need a Wii Remote to play I'm disprone to not list it as well as the uDraw. Honestly, we need a better format to distinguish optional from non-optional accessories, since I think there are a number of games that have Wii Remote + Nunchuk, where the Nunchuk is actually optional. In these cases the Wii Remote isn't optional though, so I'm prone to list it. Kolano (talk) 06:44, 21 May 2013 (CEST)

Well, the way I view it is control combinations. That's what's actually useful. Wiimote + Nunchuk makes sense for games that use them both. But there is even a Wii game that uses just the nunchuk and ignores the wiimote entirely, and it lists only the nunchuk (unless you changed it and I didn't notice). The other approach is to list the devices, but that really sucks in games like smash brothers, which use a wide variety of combinations. So yea... Seems we disagree. What now? - MaJoR (talk) 09:49, 21 May 2013 (CEST)

Yeah, I'm not sure yet. Typically I've just been going by the listing on the rear of the NA/EU boxes that provides icons for each device supported. Beyond that I haven't been worrying about how the devices are used much, since it's hard to know exactly which control schemes are possible (i.e. is the nunchuk optional, can the nunchuk be used by itself, etc.) without the game. If there is a game that lists only the nunchuk now I would prefer to list it as "Wii Mote + Nunchuk", since I'd guess that's what the box would indicate. Maybe this could be resolved by providing separate input and control scheme rows, or perhaps just some clearer rules on how to indicate different control schemes (i.e. perhaps enable unbolding optional controls, though in this case the Wii Remote isn't really optional, and actually I'd guess based on how it slides into the uDraw that the buttons on the Wii Remote are used in games). These devices are different than things like the Wii Balance Board though, since they do use the Wii Remote for Bluetooth communication.

One good thing to capture, if we do try to tackle control schemes would be games that support sideways Wii Remotes vs standard use, since there are clearly Dolphin options related to such.Kolano (talk) 16:52, 21 May 2013 (CEST)

I looked up reviews on almost all of the udraw games. I couldn't find a single one that used the buttons on the Wii Remote. Reviewers even commented about this, for example asking why a platformer game was controlled with the stylus when there was a dpad right there. To my knowledge, the udraw games do not use the wii remote at all. And yea, I agree with you on the sideways wiimote bit. I never really found a way to handle it though. Well, I really like the control config setup. It's very useful. And it usually isn't that difficult to figure out "Wiimote and nuchuk" 99% of the time means "wiimote + nunchuk" for example. Well, perhaps we should move this to the general discussions page, and try to get Jhonn's opinion? - MaJoR (talk) 00:34, 22 May 2013 (CEST)

Well, I think we should list all required inputs. For example, Classic controller needs Wii Remote to function properly, so, list Classic Controller and Wiimote, the same for uDraw tablet. Also, my suggestion for required and optional inputs would be using icons for all inputs (even the optionals), something like what we have on WiiBrew wiki (here is an example -- the infobox has a lot of icons, we could get only input related ones). This "design" can also provide visual feedback about how many controllers are supported in multiplayer and if the game uses sideways wiimote, etc. This would require a major rewrite of the wiki pages, but I think it's our best bet, since we don't have a standard for input listings. Also, since we don't have a documented "standard" right now, we can create one now and list it in Project:Wiki conventions. Furthermore, the input icons used in WiiBrew are using Creative Commons license, we could use (or create our icons based on it) without copyright/licensing issues... Jhonn (talk)

I disagree on the required inputs bit. Especially for VC games and the like, it seems rather silly to list the Wii Remote when it does absolutely nothing at all ever for an entire class of games. Also, we have a standard, the combinations style is everywhere :P. Oh well, seems I'm outvoted on this. And it would be easier... Well, if we're going to have it just list the devices instead of combinations, what do we do with cases where things are complicated? The whole combinations system came about because of games like Super Smash Bros. Brawl where one device can perform multiple functions. Is there anyway to address this? - MaJoR (talk) 01:50, 25 May 2013 (CEST)

Well, in this case, List only uDraw Game Tablet and Classic Controller separated and add the combination system to all pages (to the VC games too). Whatever we do, add documentation to it somewhere to prevent future issues. Another option, if we're going to use the icons, is "merging" normal icons to represent combinations (like wiimote + nunchuck), but in this case, we leave Classic controller and uDraw as a separate icon, without combining them with wiimote... Jhonn (talk)

Forum Link Issues with Ampersand
It seems when content from the wiki is pulled into the forum ampersands in links are not escaped properly (i.e. "&" > "%26"). This causes the links to either be broken, or in some cases such as We Ski & Snowboard an entirely wrong page to be linked. Kolano (talk) 16:38, 23 April 2013 (CEST)
 * We should inform delroth, since the links works and are parsed correctly when we are in the wiki, this probably is an issue with the "wiki => forum" rendering engine. Jhonn (talk)
 * There is a bit of a bleh situation going on right now... delroth isn't available to be contacted. It will be a while. - MaJoR (talk) 22:04, 23 April 2013 (CEST)