Talk:Stereoscopic 3D Compatibility Guide

Improvements?
Well, this is still a little early in, but you can kind of see the structure forming. Jump in with suggestions on better ways to handle it if you come up with any! - MaJoR (talk) 16:46, 7 August 2014 (CEST)

OK, this hasn't gotten much work in the past year. As of today, I'm leaning more to including the title specific content under the Enhancements section of each page where it's more likely to be seen with a link back here for the other details on 3d. Kolano (talk) 23:51, 25 November 2015 (CET)


 * I'd actually want to create a new rating system for 3D compatibility and integrate them into Infobox VG. They're made up of four sets of green stars and in case of game displaying 2D in 3D mode, we'll use an image of two green stars and two gray stars but there'll be text "2D" hovering above them. The rating parameter will be familiarized with compatibility rating system (0-5) except there'll be no "5", then for 2D, the parameter will be "2D" which coincidentally there'll be two green stars just like "2"! This sounds clever! Can this be done? I'm afraid we'd have to put arbitrary comment about 3D effect issues into Emu Info along with compatibility rating in the Infobox VG. Is it alright this way? Lucario (talk) 04:53, 28 November 2015 (CET)


 * Our general concern with ratings comes with the inability to clearly define rules for rating things that result in consistent assignments. I'm currently unclear we can work out rules beyond a Untested/0-2 star system (0: 3d unsupported (i.e. 2d games), 1: 3d /w Problems 2: Functional 3d), let us know if you have a clear ruleset for a more fine-grained system. Some level of significance around 3d Problems would be desirable, but I'm not sure clear rules can be defined. We shouldn't worry about the specific display of this info till we have a well defined system in place. Kolano (talk) 08:19, 28 November 2015 (CET)


 * Doesn't 0 stars mean "untested" in the compatibility rating system? I don't want to cause the confusion between "Untested" and "2D" for 0 stars. I've noticed the rating column only contains five different possibilies: "Not recommended", "Fair", "Good", "Excellent" and "No 3D". This is how I came up with four sets of stars for 3D rating system, there will not be fifth star to make up for "No 3D", but will in turn use the text "2D". It should have 2 stars similar to "Fair" as opposed to "Not Recommended" as I can imagine the latter one means "unplayable with 3D on" which I'm sure  "2D" will not do like this, it's just 2D. I think the convergence setting actually works for 2D. Lucario (talk) 09:19, 28 November 2015 (CET)


 * 0 stars does mean "untested" there, but it seemed odd to grant a title a star if it didn't support 3d at all. Though perhaps the more appropriate rating for them would be "Excellent" as they presumably work just fine /w 3d options set, they just fail to make use of 3d (which I'm guessing would be obvious for most of these titles). If we have a multi-star system we still need clearer rules on what distinguishes: "Fair", "Good", and "Excellent" (or perhaps just "Fair"/"Good since presumably "Excellent" means things just work as expected). I'm still leaning towards not having such a fine grained rating system, and leaving the discussion of specific issues under Enhancements to indicate the level or problems and proposed corrections.Kolano (talk) 10:19, 28 November 2015 (CET)


 * I'm okay with just three stars: Bad, OK, Excellent. Though I'd like to hear from JMC47 about this since it was him who made up five possibilies in the rating column I think. We'd still need to make up distinguish between "untested" and "not recommended". If we can't even give one star to "not recommend" then this will subtract a star down to just two sets of stars. :/ Lucario (talk) 11:28, 28 November 2015 (CET)


 * I'm OK with 1 star for "Not Recommended", presuming that means 3d output is significantly broken. I was just uncomfortable using that label for 2d titles that don't output 3d, but work just fine under 3d output modes. Kolano (talk) 12:32, 28 November 2015 (CET)


 * Oh right, I somehow thought you said to give 0 stars to the titles rated as "not recommended" in 3D rating compatibility. (I need a "not support 3d =/= not recommended" lesson apparently) I'd still like to give "2D" two stars to coincide with first digit in parameter "2". Lucario (talk) 12:53, 28 November 2015 (CET)


 * I am against stars. The silly stars are a huge problem for emulation rating, even when it's much simpler that 3D! 3D is so absurdly complicated! When this was brought up the stars idea was discussed, and I pushed strongly against it, and we settled for the current text technique. I think it should stay as such.
 * I'm also pretty wary of it showing up in pages. Notice how this page here describes the problems with 3D very clearly, as well as having rating. The rating *and* descriptions would need to be integrated into each page, and I have no idea how to do that without looking awkward. Well, the only idea I've come up with is putting it into Emulation Information, but at that point, couldn't you just integrate the rating with the post? - MaJoR (talk) 15:57, 28 November 2015 (CET)


 * This info needs to be assessed for every single title. The table here (and the page itself) will eventually become too unwieldy to be useful (i.e. once it contains multiple thousands of rows). The text ratings have the exact same issue as stars, in either case we need rules around how the ratings are assigned and we currently don't have any. My thoughts here had been to add the additional rating to the info box (though it could be moved elsewhere) and include the detailed instructions for problematic titles in the "Enhancements" section of each title. Likely prefixed with a Problems template that would cover 3d info in brief and link back to this page for more specific details around 3d output support. As I think was discussed previously, with no linkages here no one is likely to ever find/see the 3d info provided; and if we add a link to each title we might as well provide the 3d info on the title's page. Kolano (talk) 16:47, 28 November 2015 (CET)


 * Oh and we may need to cautious around presuming "No 3d". There may be relevant 3d data even in some 2d games, one example of such (outside the Wii) would be recent Street Fighter II releases, which assign z-indexes to the background layers/character sprites to provide a 3d effect on 3d TVs. Kolano (talk) 17:17, 28 November 2015 (CET)


 * Ok, read the whole discussion now. I think we should move the testing details currently available on this page to an entry in Enhancements section of the respective games, as this page as it is now is starting to get crowded and clunky. About the ratings, I somewhat share the same opinion as MaJoR but I'm also afraid we may not have a better way to evaluate them. What I would suggest is trying to define *veeeeeery clear* rules/aspects to define what "3D rating" a game should get (if we can achieve that I think we won't have further issues with the system) before moving on with that, perhaps using a more simplified rating (that doesn't necessarily needs to be stars, maybe a single "circle" which get a color based on the rating -- maybe on the infobox?). Something like 3 stars? 0 means untested, 1 means No 3D/Not Recommended (e.g. graphics become messed, several issues/game breaking problems or no 3D at all), 2 means fair (e.g. game renders in 3D but not all times or have other minor issues that shouldn't affect gameplay) and 3 means Good (everything else that doesn't fit the previous two categories get here). I would also like to somehow incorporate recommended depth/separation values in the game pages since most games in Dolphin doesn't come with any on their INIs and from personal experience many games requires different values to even get a 3D effect... - Jhonn (talk) 03:48, 29 November 2015 (CET)
 * I felt like now's the good time to bring up the mockup 3D rating table. These are my own words. Might need to hue the stars little more.
 * {| class="wikitable"

!|3D Condition !|Description
 * [[Image:3DStars3.png]]
 * Excellent: Nice stereoscopic 3D gameplay experience.
 * [[Image:3DStars2.png]]
 * OK: Gameplay can progress most of the time. Some visual issues.
 * [[Image:3DStars1.png]]
 * Bad: Gameplay can't progress with 3D mode on. Bad visual issues.
 * [[Image:3DStars2D.png]]
 * 2D: May not show 3D most of the time if not at all.
 * [[Image:3DStars0.png]]
 * Unknown: Has not been tested yet
 * }
 * Lucario (talk) 04:50, 29 November 2015 (CET)
 * Surprised to hear that you are very against the star rating for 3D condition chart. How come? Just for confirmation, are you a 3D user? I'm considering integrating into Infobox VG as there is compatibility rating and I felt that it's good spot for secondary rating set made to rate 3D of each game (I can't speak for virtual console games however.....). It will be an "easy access" for 3D users and I can't see how is it redundant/silly. Just for future reference I'm against arbitrary data to there. The 3D issue comments should go into Emu Info/Enhancements. Lucario (talk) 04:50, 29 November 2015 (CET)
 * [[Image:3DStars0.png]]
 * Unknown: Has not been tested yet
 * }
 * Lucario (talk) 04:50, 29 November 2015 (CET)
 * Surprised to hear that you are very against the star rating for 3D condition chart. How come? Just for confirmation, are you a 3D user? I'm considering integrating into Infobox VG as there is compatibility rating and I felt that it's good spot for secondary rating set made to rate 3D of each game (I can't speak for virtual console games however.....). It will be an "easy access" for 3D users and I can't see how is it redundant/silly. Just for future reference I'm against arbitrary data to there. The 3D issue comments should go into Emu Info/Enhancements. Lucario (talk) 04:50, 29 November 2015 (CET)