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Project:General Discussions: Difference between revisions
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== Open Discussions == | == Open Discussions == | ||
== 16:9 and F-Zero GX's custom cars problem restoration == | |||
Since the edit summary has very little space, I'm going to fill in the details here. Both of these problems (and the powersliding bug) are problems that users encountered in the emulator and asked about on the forums or made issue reports about. The custom car bug was frequently encountered and everyone thought it was Dolphin's fault, and many users have been caught running this game with widescreen hacks and asking for help with bugs! The problems are there to preemptively inform them so they will not experience the problem in the first place. They are in the problems area because to a user, it is a problem, and the problems area is where solutions to problems lie. They are however on the bottom, since they are the least important. As for 16:9 being in enhancements, Lucario's logic is not entirely wrong, as you have to do it on the console so it is an issue that would be encountered there as well. But it is wrong in that it can't be an enhancement if it is a feature of the game and not something dolphin is adding to it. Furthermore, the problem of users using the widescreen hack and then having problems with it IS a dolphin-unique problem, and this is meant to address that specifically. So the problems area is the spot it belongs in most. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 07:48, 4 November 2015 (CET) | |||
:I haven't thought of the part where users should turn "widescreen hack" off when using the widescreen mode in the game, hence the problem on emulation side where the widescreen hack exist. I'll give you that. I'm also thinking of a new section titled "User Errors" where we can list common errors that was on the user's side. Then the custom car problem can go there and the two players one ctrl problem in Super Smash Bros. Brawl and possibly others. What's your thoughts on this? [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 08:50, 4 November 2015 (CET) | |||
::Hmm... I think a new section is a good idea! But I'm not sure "Users Errors" is a good naming for it though... What about bugs that happen in the game that dolphin recreates, but that users think are actually dolphin problems? See the F-Zero GX powersliding bug, star fox adventures and super mario galaxy reflections, etc etc. Where would they go? So a different term might be a good idea... - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 09:58, 4 November 2015 (CET) | |||
:::Major raises a good point here. I would like to be consistent in how we handle things, so many of these non-emu bugs have been irksome in the Problems sections. Perhaps "Non-Emulation Problems" would be a inoffensive title for these. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 10:05, 4 November 2015 (CET) | |||
::::"Non-Emulation Problems" sounds better and it can cover more problems above, but doesn't felt right for certain kinds of problem, such as the two players and one controller in SSBB. Dolphin is still at fault for allowing the different controller settings to use the same device twice. I was thinking of a less technical term and I came up with probably the best term for all of these problems! "Common Misconceptions"? | |||
::::On a second thought, I'm viewing the two players one controller as a real problem and that it should stay under the problem section. I can't think of any more user problems that "Non-Emulation Problems" can't cover. Either that or "Common Misconceptions", or we should continue to think of a better term that covers the user problem and sometime both user and Dolphin problem to some extent? [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 11:55, 4 November 2015 (CET) | |||
::::"Emulation Information and Misconceptions"? [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 12:58, 4 November 2015 (CET) | |||
:::::Just a heads-up, two players on one controller does fall in the new section, SSBB allows mixing Wiimotes with GC Controllers in real hardware, it's not Dolphin fault if the user configured the same bindings for both GCPad and emulated Wiimote. This also covers cases like [[Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars]] (which clearly says at the beginning that you can't use a Wiimote while a GC controller is plugged) and [[Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity]] (which already have a problem entry for that issue -- it should go in a new section). Said that, "Emulation Info" sounds kinda wrong for me (native 16:9 and mixing controllers can be done in real hardware too) so I would choose Common Misconceptions/Mistakes. And what about listing that section before Problems/Global Problems? Users having those common issues would quickly find the info they need without reading/rolling through all other problems (useful in pages with long problems, like F-Zero GX or SSBB). Thoughts? - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) | |||
::::::I like "False Problems". Why? This excludes ''16:9 GCN'' because this is not a problem on any level, isn't an enhancement as defined by Dolphin emulator staff, and it sets up [[Template:WidescreenGCN]] better. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 21:16, 5 November 2015 (CET) | |||
::::::Also there are images in [[F-Zero GX#Emulation Information]] section. Since they aren't bug images in the Dolphin sense, these images need to be categorized differently. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 21:42, 5 November 2015 (CET) | |||
:::::::The reason I came up with "Emulation Information" is because it sounds more general than "Common Misconceptions". It's very general that even the "problem" section can move under it. I'm viewing "problem" and "emulation info" similar except that "emulation info" can arbitrarily accept more things, especially the misconceptions and others that Dolphin won't fix/help because of the user incompetence. I was thinking this might cover the font issue in Sonic game as well as it still requires users to dump the BIOS for best accuracy. Not something Dolphin can help. Though, Kolano was thinking otherwise. Maybe Kolano didn't see the "Emulation Information" an applicable term for the emulation problems as well as I do (until he read this?!). Also about moving that section up above the problem section, I'd say go for it! [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 22:43, 5 November 2015 (CET) | |||
::::::::The overall impression this Wiki gives me is that it was more designed for developers than the general users it is supposed to be targeting. The current structure might make sense to developers, moderators (MaJoR, Jhonn, and Kolano), and enthusiasts (me and you from what it looks like right now), but it risks looking baffling to outsiders. Our recent efforts might be the push to give this Wiki a more user-friendly and more inviting edge. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 23:31, 5 November 2015 (CET) | |||
::::::Jhonn, if we're going to move "Emulation Info" section up above the problem section we'd better off stick with that name. It will be very odd to see "Common Misconceptions" or similar terms immediately after the summary of the game and before the problem section. [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 00:30, 7 November 2015 (CET) | |||
::::::If anyone was having a hard time visualizing what I meant at any point in this conversation, check out [[F-Zero GX/sandbox]], [[Super Smash Bros. Brawl/sandbox]], or [[Schlag den Raab/sandbox]]. Note the removal of <tt><nowiki>=== 16:9 ===</nowiki></tt> from [[F-Zero GX/sandbox]], removal of <tt><nowiki>=== Subspace Emissary Videos ===</nowiki></tt> from [[Super Smash Bros. Brawl/sandbox]], and testing tags for [[Schlag den Raab/sandbox]]. I would really like some feedback on my revisions! --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 01:18, 7 November 2015 (CET) | |||
:::::::I'm against removing these subsections and move them into infobox. It will make the new section look emptier and ruin the users' readability because the article flow is broken. But I might be fine with certain banners (esp. [[Template:DualLayerWiiDiscs]]) as long as it doesn't remove anything in the article, similar to desync info in [[Netplay Guide]]. But I'd against others if they look somewhat redundant if a subsection exists for it, like [[Template:WidescreenGCN]] and the 16:9 subsection. I'm fine with the new banner you've made in [[Schlag den Raab/sandbox]]. | |||
:::::::But I'm very against the rating problem. It's very REDUNDANT! As a dev they'd go to Dolphin issue report. As a reader, they'd determine the problem based on the context of the current problems. Not only that, they'd have zero purpose in the old problem subsections. Hardly anybody will read there. Even then, if there's any, they'd read the context of the problem. It's going to waste your work and clutter up the game pages. [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 02:03, 7 November 2015 (CET) | |||
::::::::I really think that information such as widescreen GCN games and dual-layer games should be up top somewhere with some degree of emphasis instead of somewhere in the main article. If you are worried about my removal of subsections causing the new sections to look more barren, there is missing information about MD5 codes for good dumps of GCN/Wii games just to throw an idea out there. Just have to devise a chart/template or something to log such information. [[Ripping Game Discs]] has CleanRip. CleanRip uses XML files that has that data for most games. Somehow have to extract the values quickly with a bot. | |||
::::::::The idea of rating each problem is to give the user a quick way to evaluate the cost of emulating things accurately instead of having to look at a wall of text which can be more redundant than the ratings in some cases. Higher accuracy takes up more CPU/GPU cycles generally speaking. I'm not expecting this system to be deployed any time soon unlike the banners we devised so far. Needs several revisions and tweaks. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 02:35, 7 November 2015 (CET) | |||
=== Global Replacement Request === | === Global Replacement Request === | ||
A spot to capture global replacement requests: | A spot to capture global replacement requests: | ||