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=== DSP-LLE === | === DSP-LLE === | ||
I know this wiki is very game focused, and doesn't focus on stuff like explaining emulator options. But still, some topics, like DSP-LLE, are mentioned throughout the wiki without any explanation whatsoever. So someone sees the option in the configuration list, tries to use it, error. So they search the wiki, and find nothing. They go to the main dolphin page, nothing in the FAQs or support either. If they do google searches it will lead them to the forum, but even then it's not exactly easy to find. Should this wiki have something to explain certain topics, like DSP-LLE? Even if it was just a page with a link to the forums, it could go a long way to helping users figure out how it works. Obviously I am not suggesting we explain every single option available for configuration; that would take far too much effort to do as it changes all the time, and dolphin itself does a great at explaining things usually. But it might be nice to have something on the wiki for those that need it, just to help push them in the right direction. [[User: | I know this wiki is very game focused, and doesn't focus on stuff like explaining emulator options. But still, some topics, like DSP-LLE, are mentioned throughout the wiki without any explanation whatsoever. So someone sees the option in the configuration list, tries to use it, error. So they search the wiki, and find nothing. They go to the main dolphin page, nothing in the FAQs or support either. If they do google searches it will lead them to the forum, but even then it's not exactly easy to find. Should this wiki have something to explain certain topics, like DSP-LLE? Even if it was just a page with a link to the forums, it could go a long way to helping users figure out how it works. Obviously I am not suggesting we explain every single option available for configuration; that would take far too much effort to do as it changes all the time, and dolphin itself does a great at explaining things usually. But it might be nice to have something on the wiki for those that need it, just to help push them in the right direction. [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] 20:11, 08 June 2011 (UTC) | ||
=== Compatibility/Testing Validation === | === Compatibility/Testing Validation === | ||
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=== Transition to New VGRelease Template === | === Transition to New VGRelease Template === | ||
"Looking at the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Vgrelease_new Template], it fixes alot of old problems with vgrelease, like, it gets rid of the automatic reordering (which requires some ugly formatting to dance around), it lets you specify any region without it being spelled out in the template, and gives you more control over formatting. I don't do templates, but it may be worth considering to adding it here, either was vgrelease new or incorporating into our vgrelease somehow." [[User: | "Looking at the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Vgrelease_new Template], it fixes alot of old problems with vgrelease, like, it gets rid of the automatic reordering (which requires some ugly formatting to dance around), it lets you specify any region without it being spelled out in the template, and gives you more control over formatting. I don't do templates, but it may be worth considering to adding it here, either was vgrelease new or incorporating into our vgrelease somehow." [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] 21:54, 17 July 2012 (CEST) | ||
Unfortunately the template isn't compatible with the parameter format of the current VGRelease. This means that each [http://wiki.dolphin-emulator.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&search=VGRelease&limit=500 page using the VGRelease template] will need to be updated. Listing it here till we get up the effort.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] 05:37, 18 July 2012 (CEST) | Unfortunately the template isn't compatible with the parameter format of the current VGRelease. This means that each [http://wiki.dolphin-emulator.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&search=VGRelease&limit=500 page using the VGRelease template] will need to be updated. Listing it here till we get up the effort.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] 05:37, 18 July 2012 (CEST) | ||
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We've just moved to a new server, and the new wiki administrators ([[User:Parlane|Parlane]] and [[User:No cluez|No cluez]]) are actually Dolphin developers, so any problem what we found should be quickly solved now if compared when Mamario was the only admin. | We've just moved to a new server, and the new wiki administrators ([[User:Parlane|Parlane]] and [[User:No cluez|No cluez]]) are actually Dolphin developers, so any problem what we found should be quickly solved now if compared when Mamario was the only admin. | ||
Now, we have a better spam blocker powered by reCaptcha, but some pages needs to be updated since some pages moved to other locations (in fact, all pages of "Dolphin Emulator Wiki" namespace was moved to "Project" namespace). Also, any link to the old server (dolphin-emulator.com) should be changed to the new site (dolphin-emu.org)... | [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | Now, we have a better spam blocker powered by reCaptcha, but some pages needs to be updated since some pages moved to other locations (in fact, all pages of "Dolphin Emulator Wiki" namespace was moved to "Project" namespace). Also, any link to the old server (dolphin-emulator.com) should be changed to the new site (dolphin-emu.org)... | [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
:All links to the old server have been fixed. The only place where "dolphin-emulator.com" is mentioned, on the entire wiki, is on this page. - [[User: | :All links to the old server have been fixed. The only place where "dolphin-emulator.com" is mentioned, on the entire wiki, is on this page. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 01:01, 3 November 2012 (CET) | ||
:...Or not. Crap. It's going to be hard to find them with this crappy search function. It showed it was done! Oh well. I'll keep at it. - [[User: | :...Or not. Crap. It's going to be hard to find them with this crappy search function. It showed it was done! Oh well. I'll keep at it. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 09:45, 3 November 2012 (CET) | ||
::Ok, I think I got them all. I can't find any more with any search results. Phew - [[User: | ::Ok, I think I got them all. I can't find any more with any search results. Phew - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 06:42, 6 November 2012 (CET) | ||
=== Forum Integration === | === Forum Integration === | ||
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So, here's what we need to figure out. We need to get a screenshot standard set up. The only spot on the wiki with screenshots I know of is [[Resident Evil]], and it's really old. Make them 300px perhaps? We also need to figure out how to collapse testing entries, and if we want to collapse it here and there, or just there (if that's possible). And we need to agree on patches and texture stuff, but I think it's pretty easy to say just go with the Xenoblade style. Oh, and once we get things settled, someone should probably write up a wiki 101 for the forum. Probably me, since I've been doing a lot of the go between, and suggested it... Well, what do you guys think on all this? Delroth said he's going to work on it tomorrow, this is going up '''FAST''', so let's try to jump on it as best as we can. | So, here's what we need to figure out. We need to get a screenshot standard set up. The only spot on the wiki with screenshots I know of is [[Resident Evil]], and it's really old. Make them 300px perhaps? We also need to figure out how to collapse testing entries, and if we want to collapse it here and there, or just there (if that's possible). And we need to agree on patches and texture stuff, but I think it's pretty easy to say just go with the Xenoblade style. Oh, and once we get things settled, someone should probably write up a wiki 101 for the forum. Probably me, since I've been doing a lot of the go between, and suggested it... Well, what do you guys think on all this? Delroth said he's going to work on it tomorrow, this is going up '''FAST''', so let's try to jump on it as best as we can. | ||
- [[User: | - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 14:06, 6 November 2012 (CET) | ||
:This is indeed a great change, which will prevent double and outdated work. Thanks for suggesting it | :This is indeed a great change, which will prevent double and outdated work. Thanks for suggesting it MayImilae! I agree with some of the testing sections being too long. A simple way to reduce them is to delete the ancient testing data and useless testing without proper descriptions. You are referring to the thumbnails for the screenshots right? The Resident Evil ones look good, but there's a bit too much padding for my taste between the screenshot and the outer-box. I'll help with the wiki 101 for the forum if someone makes a start. :P As for the high resolution texturespacks. I think we should create a section for them under each game which has packs available. It'll be more organized that way. - [[User:Garteal|Garteal]] ([[User talk:Garteal|talk]]) 14:14, 6 November 2012 (CET) | ||
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Whoa, that was fast mbc07. Sweet! I really like the testing work. Though it might be nice if it remained the whole length of the page when collapsed, for consistency, but that's just nitpicking. I disagree with you on the '''tester''' column. It goes to an automatically generated contribs page here on the wiki, not to a forum link or anything else. That's why there aren't any red links right now. I think it's nice, cause it shows who made the edit, and what else that person did. I like it. As for your ideas for the media gallery, I'm all for it. Most pages only have a few videos anyway. But yea, it will need to have the alignment fixed and stuff for that. Today is a little busy, with voting and all, but I'll jump into the work as soon as I can. - [[User: | Whoa, that was fast mbc07. Sweet! I really like the testing work. Though it might be nice if it remained the whole length of the page when collapsed, for consistency, but that's just nitpicking. I disagree with you on the '''tester''' column. It goes to an automatically generated contribs page here on the wiki, not to a forum link or anything else. That's why there aren't any red links right now. I think it's nice, cause it shows who made the edit, and what else that person did. I like it. As for your ideas for the media gallery, I'm all for it. Most pages only have a few videos anyway. But yea, it will need to have the alignment fixed and stuff for that. Today is a little busy, with voting and all, but I'll jump into the work as soon as I can. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 23:30, 6 November 2012 (CET) | ||
:In this case, let's leave the tester column as it is now. After the forum integration is complete it would be nice to provide a comment somewhere warning the visitors to only add her/his nickname on the tester column if he/she have a wiki account corresponding to this nickname, so, we avoid the red links. Just to be sure: when you say "it might be nice if it remained the whole length of the page when collapsed" you are referring to the table width right? In this case, a simple CSS style should do the trick... I'll (try to) fix this and also mess around with the alignment and position between videos and screenshots when I get more free time, so we can finish a standard for the upcoming media gallery - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | :In this case, let's leave the tester column as it is now. After the forum integration is complete it would be nice to provide a comment somewhere warning the visitors to only add her/his nickname on the tester column if he/she have a wiki account corresponding to this nickname, so, we avoid the red links. Just to be sure: when you say "it might be nice if it remained the whole length of the page when collapsed" you are referring to the table width right? In this case, a simple CSS style should do the trick... I'll (try to) fix this and also mess around with the alignment and position between videos and screenshots when I get more free time, so we can finish a standard for the upcoming media gallery - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
:As delroth said, too many videos. I ran into the hangups, but I thought it was because of dialup. So, what do you prefer? Purge all but 3 videos? Or have 3 videos, screenshots, then links to more videos? I'm a little on the fence on this one. If we have more video thinks, a joined media gallery is probably a bad idea, and better to have screenshots then videos, I'd think. Hmm... - [[User: | :As delroth said, too many videos. I ran into the hangups, but I thought it was because of dialup. So, what do you prefer? Purge all but 3 videos? Or have 3 videos, screenshots, then links to more videos? I'm a little on the fence on this one. If we have more video thinks, a joined media gallery is probably a bad idea, and better to have screenshots then videos, I'd think. Hmm... - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 01:46, 7 November 2012 (CET) | ||
:I like the media gallery suggestion mbc07. I do think there has to be a limit though. Also pondering about what | :I like the media gallery suggestion mbc07. I do think there has to be a limit though. Also pondering about what MayImilae suggested. Perhaps we should limit it to screenshots only? Or if we also want videos, there should be a maximum limit of 3 of them or so. What will we do to the rest? Delete them? Or link them somewhere below the embedded? --[[User:Garteal|Garteal]] ([[User talk:Garteal|talk]]) 13:13, 7 November 2012 (CET) | ||
=== Standards for Videos and Screenshots === | === Standards for Videos and Screenshots === | ||
Alright guys, let's get the whole video and screenshot thing settled. I've added some screenshots and created a [[Brawl/sandbox|Brawl Sandbox]], and we can use this to finalize how we want to do it. The idea is that it has no cap for screenshots, but they are 200px (we can always add a cap), and presented in a gallery. Embedded videos are 300px and use the youtube template, and are capped to 3 videos per page, with links to remaining videos. (I have no idea how we'll pick which videos are shown and which aren't, but, yea. HD receives priority?) Gameplay videos are presented after screenshots because the links disrupt the flow of the page, having it go from thumbnails to thumbnails makes a cleaner look. And last but not least, screenshots have categories. Wii screenshots, GameCube screenshots, etc etc. So guys, do you like how it's done there? Any changed you'd like? - [[User: | Alright guys, let's get the whole video and screenshot thing settled. I've added some screenshots and created a [[Brawl/sandbox|Brawl Sandbox]], and we can use this to finalize how we want to do it. The idea is that it has no cap for screenshots, but they are 200px (we can always add a cap), and presented in a gallery. Embedded videos are 300px and use the youtube template, and are capped to 3 videos per page, with links to remaining videos. (I have no idea how we'll pick which videos are shown and which aren't, but, yea. HD receives priority?) Gameplay videos are presented after screenshots because the links disrupt the flow of the page, having it go from thumbnails to thumbnails makes a cleaner look. And last but not least, screenshots have categories. Wii screenshots, GameCube screenshots, etc etc. So guys, do you like how it's done there? Any changed you'd like? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 12:54, 8 November 2012 (CET) | ||
:If we don't have a cap, it will increase the loading time of the page depending on the number of screenshots and their quality(lossless PNGs, etc). Imagine if there's like 10 3MB shots in there. In order to address that, we either have to limit the screenshots to JPG only to reduce the filesizes and loading times, or have a reasonable cap. I like the 200px size for screenshots. The only thing that remains is the padding of it, which iirc, mbc07 was going to address. As for the videos, the three that should be embedded have to be recorded without any emulator glitches (if possible) and has to be high quality videos (if possible). We'll have one video for each type, eg: one video showing the gameplay, one the intro, one shows the battles. 300px seems reasonable to me. And yes, I like the cleaner approach as well, so good job on that | :If we don't have a cap, it will increase the loading time of the page depending on the number of screenshots and their quality(lossless PNGs, etc). Imagine if there's like 10 3MB shots in there. In order to address that, we either have to limit the screenshots to JPG only to reduce the filesizes and loading times, or have a reasonable cap. I like the 200px size for screenshots. The only thing that remains is the padding of it, which iirc, mbc07 was going to address. As for the videos, the three that should be embedded have to be recorded without any emulator glitches (if possible) and has to be high quality videos (if possible). We'll have one video for each type, eg: one video showing the gameplay, one the intro, one shows the battles. 300px seems reasonable to me. And yes, I like the cleaner approach as well, so good job on that MayImilae. As for the screenshots category, are they meant to show a giant gallery of every games' screenshots? - [[User:Garteal|Garteal]] ([[User talk:Garteal|talk]]) 13:16, 8 November 2012 (CET) | ||
::For the record, screenshot thumbnails are generated automatically by the wiki, and they are extremely small. Dialup can load that sandbox in no time, trust me. In fact, I just downloaded one just to check. [http://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/images/thumb/d/d1/Brawl-RSBE01-1584.jpg/120px-Brawl-RSBE01-1584.jpg 4KB]. Yea, that'll bring your browser to a crawl :P. Anyway, we can have any as many screenshots as we want on the page, without worrying about load times. The only reason for a cap on the videos is because they were causing a stall as browsers loaded them, due to the crappiness of the flash plugin. As for the one video of each type thing, I don't think that's a good idea, simply because we only have so many videos to pick from. I think we should just pick the best ones, taking into account HD, any glitches present, and overall quality of it. - [[User: | ::For the record, screenshot thumbnails are generated automatically by the wiki, and they are extremely small. Dialup can load that sandbox in no time, trust me. In fact, I just downloaded one just to check. [http://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/images/thumb/d/d1/Brawl-RSBE01-1584.jpg/120px-Brawl-RSBE01-1584.jpg 4KB]. Yea, that'll bring your browser to a crawl :P. Anyway, we can have any as many screenshots as we want on the page, without worrying about load times. The only reason for a cap on the videos is because they were causing a stall as browsers loaded them, due to the crappiness of the flash plugin. As for the one video of each type thing, I don't think that's a good idea, simply because we only have so many videos to pick from. I think we should just pick the best ones, taking into account HD, any glitches present, and overall quality of it. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 13:46, 8 November 2012 (CET) | ||
::Okay, I didn't know the wiki generated the thumbs, so that's good news. Alright then we'll see how it plays out without the cap. And yes, we don't have videos for every game, but I hope people will post their videos here now that the forum threads also link to the wiki. If there are enough videos then what I said could be applied, if you all agree with it ofcourse. I just think that it'll be more interesting to have different parts of the game shown than just the same gameplay style. Generally we'll want the best possible videos to show off Dolphin yes. Glad we agree. :P - [[User:Garteal|Garteal]] ([[User talk:Garteal|talk]]) 13:53, 8 November 2012 (CET) | ::Okay, I didn't know the wiki generated the thumbs, so that's good news. Alright then we'll see how it plays out without the cap. And yes, we don't have videos for every game, but I hope people will post their videos here now that the forum threads also link to the wiki. If there are enough videos then what I said could be applied, if you all agree with it ofcourse. I just think that it'll be more interesting to have different parts of the game shown than just the same gameplay style. Generally we'll want the best possible videos to show off Dolphin yes. Glad we agree. :P - [[User:Garteal|Garteal]] ([[User talk:Garteal|talk]]) 13:53, 8 November 2012 (CET) | ||
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:[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 20:10, 8 November 2012 (CET) | :[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 20:10, 8 November 2012 (CET) | ||
:I like alot of these ideas with the templates. A way to automatically handle the 3 videos selected for embedding would be ''awesome''. I'm not sure about the image template though. I know it's a work in progress, but it's currently not easier to use than a gallery, which is bad. It also is 300px only, which makes it somewhat inflexible. It would work well for bug images, but if screenshots are 200px and bug images are 300px, it couldn't do both. And I still think 200px might be better for screenshots so we can have more... I know everything is a work in progress, just you know, saying my thoughts. - [[User: | :I like alot of these ideas with the templates. A way to automatically handle the 3 videos selected for embedding would be ''awesome''. I'm not sure about the image template though. I know it's a work in progress, but it's currently not easier to use than a gallery, which is bad. It also is 300px only, which makes it somewhat inflexible. It would work well for bug images, but if screenshots are 200px and bug images are 300px, it couldn't do both. And I still think 200px might be better for screenshots so we can have more... I know everything is a work in progress, just you know, saying my thoughts. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 22:53, 8 November 2012 (CET) | ||
:: Well, I already fixed the alignment issue on YouTube template (this means that if you embed videos using youtube template and images thumbnails of the same size, they'll be aligned properly now). I'm still trying to develop a template to randomly select 3 videos (whenever a visitor access the page) and put the rest of the videos (if exist) as links. I'm trying to make it without using expensive parser functions, but implementing this aren't so easy. In the last case, we can embed only one Video thumbnail but instead of using a single video ID we use the ID of a playlist containing all videos of that game, or, search in MediaWiki for a Video Gallery extension (that we may ask for some site admin install) or some extension that make possible of doing a template that works like the Kolano suggestion (for me, the best until now). About the WIP Image Template, I can add an parameter for setting thumbnail type (like bug, image gallery, screenshot, etc.) and then we hardcode the thumbnail size directly in the template (like XXX px for bug, YYY px for screenshots, etc.). The most important part is to keep using small templates like YouTube and the WIP Image to make easier changing thumbnails size, position, etc in the future. For example, if all testing entries from the wiki has been hardcoded in every game page instead of being included through a template, making them collapsible would need editing every single game page (like we'll need to do when the media gallery standard is set). Since we used a template, a simple change in the template source made all game pages have collapsible test entries - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | :: Well, I already fixed the alignment issue on YouTube template (this means that if you embed videos using youtube template and images thumbnails of the same size, they'll be aligned properly now). I'm still trying to develop a template to randomly select 3 videos (whenever a visitor access the page) and put the rest of the videos (if exist) as links. I'm trying to make it without using expensive parser functions, but implementing this aren't so easy. In the last case, we can embed only one Video thumbnail but instead of using a single video ID we use the ID of a playlist containing all videos of that game, or, search in MediaWiki for a Video Gallery extension (that we may ask for some site admin install) or some extension that make possible of doing a template that works like the Kolano suggestion (for me, the best until now). About the WIP Image Template, I can add an parameter for setting thumbnail type (like bug, image gallery, screenshot, etc.) and then we hardcode the thumbnail size directly in the template (like XXX px for bug, YYY px for screenshots, etc.). The most important part is to keep using small templates like YouTube and the WIP Image to make easier changing thumbnails size, position, etc in the future. For example, if all testing entries from the wiki has been hardcoded in every game page instead of being included through a template, making them collapsible would need editing every single game page (like we'll need to do when the media gallery standard is set). Since we used a template, a simple change in the template source made all game pages have collapsible test entries - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
Uh, guys... wiki activity has gone through the roof thanks to the forum integration, and all the youtube videos have been changed over (we'll have to clean some stuff up once things are all settled), on and on and on. But uh, we still don't have things set on how to handle everything! Do we go with a media gallery or gameplay screenshots/gameplay videos, do we have a limit on youtube videos, how is that handled? I don't mean to be a nag, and I know there is work to do first, as we need to investigate the randomizing and stuff, but still, stuff is happening, we need to get on this. Let's just keep moving forward. - [[User: | Uh, guys... wiki activity has gone through the roof thanks to the forum integration, and all the youtube videos have been changed over (we'll have to clean some stuff up once things are all settled), on and on and on. But uh, we still don't have things set on how to handle everything! Do we go with a media gallery or gameplay screenshots/gameplay videos, do we have a limit on youtube videos, how is that handled? I don't mean to be a nag, and I know there is work to do first, as we need to investigate the randomizing and stuff, but still, stuff is happening, we need to get on this. Let's just keep moving forward. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 04:45, 11 November 2012 (CET) | ||
The media gallery will have both videos and screenshots right? If so, that would be a bit cleaner. Having only one category, with three videos on top, followed by countless screenshots. As for the limit, I think we've all mostly agreed to having 3 as a limit. I agree, the randomizing is a good idea, which isn't hard to implement, so we'll have to wait for mbc07 in that regard. In a nutshell: 3 videos(embedded) and unlimited screenshots, right? -[[User:Garteal|Garteal]] ([[User talk:Garteal|talk]]) 12:11, 11 November 2012 (CET) | The media gallery will have both videos and screenshots right? If so, that would be a bit cleaner. Having only one category, with three videos on top, followed by countless screenshots. As for the limit, I think we've all mostly agreed to having 3 as a limit. I agree, the randomizing is a good idea, which isn't hard to implement, so we'll have to wait for mbc07 in that regard. In a nutshell: 3 videos(embedded) and unlimited screenshots, right? -[[User:Garteal|Garteal]] ([[User talk:Garteal|talk]]) 12:11, 11 November 2012 (CET) | ||
:Well, what about the additional videos? Links? Links would kinda ruin a media gallery. Plus screenshots and videos would have to be the same size for a gallery, and I was talking about using 200px. See, we have stuff to discuss. Oh, and don't forget Kolano :P. - [[User: | :Well, what about the additional videos? Links? Links would kinda ruin a media gallery. Plus screenshots and videos would have to be the same size for a gallery, and I was talking about using 200px. See, we have stuff to discuss. Oh, and don't forget Kolano :P. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 12:26, 11 November 2012 (CET) | ||
:Ofcourse. We all have to be on one line for things to happen, so we'll discuss until that is settled. As for what I meant, I thought it was better to create a mockup then try to explain it. [http://i.minus.com/ibaZtTbHIN7x01.jpg This] is what I meant for the media gallery, or atleast, something close to that. So they don't necessarily have to be the same size. As for the additional video links, if we have Javascript/PHP support, that can be easily settled. Though we might have to create a location where people could contribute their videos to. - [[User:Garteal|Garteal]] ([[User talk:Garteal|talk]]) 12:48, 11 November 2012 (CET) | :Ofcourse. We all have to be on one line for things to happen, so we'll discuss until that is settled. As for what I meant, I thought it was better to create a mockup then try to explain it. [http://i.minus.com/ibaZtTbHIN7x01.jpg This] is what I meant for the media gallery, or atleast, something close to that. So they don't necessarily have to be the same size. As for the additional video links, if we have Javascript/PHP support, that can be easily settled. Though we might have to create a location where people could contribute their videos to. - [[User:Garteal|Garteal]] ([[User talk:Garteal|talk]]) 12:48, 11 November 2012 (CET) | ||
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Take a look at [[Template:VideoGallery/test]], is the SSBB page using the standard I'm suggesting. It's already using the random thumbnails feature, but if you guys want to see another example in how the [[Template:VideoGallery|video gallery template]] works, take a look at [[Xenoblade Chronicles]]. Well, what do you guys think about this standard? I think we can already start using it. - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | Take a look at [[Template:VideoGallery/test]], is the SSBB page using the standard I'm suggesting. It's already using the random thumbnails feature, but if you guys want to see another example in how the [[Template:VideoGallery|video gallery template]] works, take a look at [[Xenoblade Chronicles]]. Well, what do you guys think about this standard? I think we can already start using it. - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
Well, personally, I still prefer smaller thumbnails for screenshots. The goal is to have a fair amount of them, and we could end up with quite a few. Plus the isolation between screenshots and videos is very clean and organized. And well, I just think it looks nice. So, in my opinion, I'd rather we go with something other than the media gallery. As such, I'll suggest an alternative like what I proposed before: 200px thumbnails for screenshots in a gameplay screenshots section, and then the youtube template with 3 ~300px videos and then links in a gameplay screenshots section. Let's see what everyone thinks between the two of them. And no matter which standard we go with, you did awesome work mbc07. - [[User: | Well, personally, I still prefer smaller thumbnails for screenshots. The goal is to have a fair amount of them, and we could end up with quite a few. Plus the isolation between screenshots and videos is very clean and organized. And well, I just think it looks nice. So, in my opinion, I'd rather we go with something other than the media gallery. As such, I'll suggest an alternative like what I proposed before: 200px thumbnails for screenshots in a gameplay screenshots section, and then the youtube template with 3 ~300px videos and then links in a gameplay screenshots section. Let's see what everyone thinks between the two of them. And no matter which standard we go with, you did awesome work mbc07. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 01:46, 14 November 2012 (CET) | ||
: Ok, my only request is to ALWAYS use the [[Template:Image|image template]] or one of the two video templates (using [[Template:VideoGallery|video gallery template]] only if the page have more than 3 videos), no matter which standard we go with. The thumbnail size can easily edited, directly in the template, by replacing the 300px tag with the desired size and changing the 275px tag with the desired size minus 25px (for example, to make the template generate 200px thumbnails, we should have 200px in the first tag and 175px in the second). This request is to make quicker fixes in future (like what was done with testing section) and because using the <code><gallery></gallery></code> tags or calling embedvideo directly gave me countless issues with floating elements and made the thumbnails size be "fixed" with a smaller size, even when specifying a higher width... - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | : Ok, my only request is to ALWAYS use the [[Template:Image|image template]] or one of the two video templates (using [[Template:VideoGallery|video gallery template]] only if the page have more than 3 videos), no matter which standard we go with. The thumbnail size can easily edited, directly in the template, by replacing the 300px tag with the desired size and changing the 275px tag with the desired size minus 25px (for example, to make the template generate 200px thumbnails, we should have 200px in the first tag and 175px in the second). This request is to make quicker fixes in future (like what was done with testing section) and because using the <code><gallery></gallery></code> tags or calling embedvideo directly gave me countless issues with floating elements and made the thumbnails size be "fixed" with a smaller size, even when specifying a higher width... - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
I'm in agreement that the screenshots/video thumbnails should vary in size to more easily distinguish them. Related to such I think separate Gameplay Videos/Gameplay Screenshots sections make sense. I'm still unclear we will ever have that many screenshots though, since the few for Resident Evil were all we ever got previously. Having the VideoGallery template is very nice though. Thanks so much for working it out John. It resolves my primary prior concern of not wanting to have to take time picking and choosing videos (though we probably still need to generate some rules to restrict videos, such as ones that point to pirated content in their descriptions/initial comments).[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 02:23, 14 November 2012 (CET) | I'm in agreement that the screenshots/video thumbnails should vary in size to more easily distinguish them. Related to such I think separate Gameplay Videos/Gameplay Screenshots sections make sense. I'm still unclear we will ever have that many screenshots though, since the few for Resident Evil were all we ever got previously. Having the VideoGallery template is very nice though. Thanks so much for working it out John. It resolves my primary prior concern of not wanting to have to take time picking and choosing videos (though we probably still need to generate some rules to restrict videos, such as ones that point to pirated content in their descriptions/initial comments).[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 02:23, 14 November 2012 (CET) | ||
:There are TONS of screenshots on the screenshots forum thread. I have dialup, so I can't do it, but someone could very easily port those over. - [[User: | :There are TONS of screenshots on the screenshots forum thread. I have dialup, so I can't do it, but someone could very easily port those over. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 03:06, 14 November 2012 (CET) | ||
Well, I guess we have a consensus then? Separated Gameplay Screenshots and Gameplay Videos, with 200px for screenshots using the image template and 300px for videos using the video template? Any comments on specifics of that? Hmm, maybe we should make a new template just for screenshots, for the 200px and to remove descriptions. That way we could keep the image template as an optional choice for bug images and the like? [[User: | Well, I guess we have a consensus then? Separated Gameplay Screenshots and Gameplay Videos, with 200px for screenshots using the image template and 300px for videos using the video template? Any comments on specifics of that? Hmm, maybe we should make a new template just for screenshots, for the 200px and to remove descriptions. That way we could keep the image template as an optional choice for bug images and the like? [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 08:24, 17 November 2012 (CET) | ||
: Ok, this is the standard. We can start commiting this standard in the game pages. I'll make the [[Template:Image]] more configurable when I have free time, specifically, to don't include the caption (screenshot only mode) via a template parameter... For now, just use the template without any tag in the second parameter, when I implement this, the caption space will be automatically wiped out) - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | : Ok, this is the standard. We can start commiting this standard in the game pages. I'll make the [[Template:Image]] more configurable when I have free time, specifically, to don't include the caption (screenshot only mode) via a template parameter... For now, just use the template without any tag in the second parameter, when I implement this, the caption space will be automatically wiped out) - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
::Glad you are adding a way to remove the caption space, I tried to get it sorted but failed, badly. Hmm. One little problem: almost all of the videos on the wiki have been changed over to the youtube template thanks to Kolano. Should we just use that, or go with the video template? - [[User: | ::Glad you are adding a way to remove the caption space, I tried to get it sorted but failed, badly. Hmm. One little problem: almost all of the videos on the wiki have been changed over to the youtube template thanks to Kolano. Should we just use that, or go with the video template? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 09:36, 18 November 2012 (CET) | ||
::: We should use the video gallery only if the game page have more than 3 videos... The rest of the pages, with 3 videos or less, should just use the YouTube template... I think there is no way of checking this instead of manually checking every game page to see which page have more than 3 vidoes, and then, updating it to the video gallery template =/ [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ::: We should use the video gallery only if the game page have more than 3 videos... The rest of the pages, with 3 videos or less, should just use the YouTube template... I think there is no way of checking this instead of manually checking every game page to see which page have more than 3 vidoes, and then, updating it to the video gallery template =/ [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
:::: *tries it. Oh... Set it to just one video and it generates 3 copies of the video. Crap. That complicates the standard a bit... - [[User: | :::: *tries it. Oh... Set it to just one video and it generates 3 copies of the video. Crap. That complicates the standard a bit... - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 02:17, 19 November 2012 (CET) | ||
=== Media Gallery standard: the final consensus=== | === Media Gallery standard: the final consensus=== | ||
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* EXTRA: for bug images and things like that, we should use the [[Template:Image|image template]] with a caption. Then, the thumbnail will be set as 300px, with the caption in one line (getting automatically truncated, if necessary). I'm setting this thumbnail as 300px to distinguish them form the screenshots and gameplay videos and because a lot of pages already uses the 300px size when an image is embedded with a specific problem. Also, having 200px screenshots for the bug images make the caption too small. | * EXTRA: for bug images and things like that, we should use the [[Template:Image|image template]] with a caption. Then, the thumbnail will be set as 300px, with the caption in one line (getting automatically truncated, if necessary). I'm setting this thumbnail as 300px to distinguish them form the screenshots and gameplay videos and because a lot of pages already uses the 300px size when an image is embedded with a specific problem. Also, having 200px screenshots for the bug images make the caption too small. | ||
That's it. I already fixed everything in the templates and updated [[Template:VideoGallery/test]] to fit in this standard, I think this should be the standard template, so we can start commiting this damn thing in all pages (c'mon guys, this discussions is taking too many time!) But since this is a community driven project, I'll ask again: what do you guys think about this standard? Any objection? - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | That's it. I already fixed everything in the templates and updated [[Template:VideoGallery/test]] to fit in this standard, I think this should be the standard template, so we can start commiting this damn thing in all pages (c'mon guys, this discussions is taking too many time!) But since this is a community driven project, I'll ask again: what do you guys think about this standard? Any objection? - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
:Works for me. It's very easy to use, I like it. I have one tiny nitpick though: is it necessary to have the "cap" separated in the video template? Stuff like '''<nowiki>|vid1=R9u_BJXRyuI|cap1=super smash bros brawl in 3d dolphin emulator</nowiki>''' could very easily be '''<nowiki>|vid1=R9u_BJXRyuI|super smash bros brawl in 3d dolphin emulator</nowiki>''' instead, unless there is something in the template to prevent it of course. It's just a little nitpick. Awesome work on the templates mbc07. - [[User: | :Works for me. It's very easy to use, I like it. I have one tiny nitpick though: is it necessary to have the "cap" separated in the video template? Stuff like '''<nowiki>|vid1=R9u_BJXRyuI|cap1=super smash bros brawl in 3d dolphin emulator</nowiki>''' could very easily be '''<nowiki>|vid1=R9u_BJXRyuI|super smash bros brawl in 3d dolphin emulator</nowiki>''' instead, unless there is something in the template to prevent it of course. It's just a little nitpick. Awesome work on the templates mbc07. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 23:22, 19 November 2012 (CET) | ||
::Well, the way how templates work doesn't allow it. I can get parameters without any prefix by using {{{1}}}, {{{2}}}, etc, but since the template randomly select one of the N videos that have been included, I cant "find" the number that correspond to the capN parameter of the selected video (because this number vary depending in which entry the template randomly selected). To avoid these kind of issues, we need to declare the parameters, allowing to get the capN by using {{{capN}}} regardless of what location it's defined, so, from my knowledge, there is no way of implementing this... - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ::Well, the way how templates work doesn't allow it. I can get parameters without any prefix by using {{{1}}}, {{{2}}}, etc, but since the template randomly select one of the N videos that have been included, I cant "find" the number that correspond to the capN parameter of the selected video (because this number vary depending in which entry the template randomly selected). To avoid these kind of issues, we need to declare the parameters, allowing to get the capN by using {{{capN}}} regardless of what location it's defined, so, from my knowledge, there is no way of implementing this... - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
:::Gotcha. It's fine, it's very easy to use now. - [[User: | :::Gotcha. It's fine, it's very easy to use now. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 02:59, 20 November 2012 (CET) | ||
:Unless delroth is able to filter the rest of the screenshots out, we might have to limit the screenshots, since it'll really mess up the game threads in the forums. As for the video section, are you able to ''hide'' the rest of the links, leaving only the embedded videos visible? That would make things much cleaner, and will let you put the video section above the screenshot section, since it'll be a hassle to scroll down to the video section if the screenshot section becomes huge. Last, but certainly not least, I would like to say you've done an amazing job with the video template mbc07. [[User:Garteal|─ Garteal]] ([[User talk:Garteal|talk]]) 16:13, 20 November 2012 (CET) | :Unless delroth is able to filter the rest of the screenshots out, we might have to limit the screenshots, since it'll really mess up the game threads in the forums. As for the video section, are you able to ''hide'' the rest of the links, leaving only the embedded videos visible? That would make things much cleaner, and will let you put the video section above the screenshot section, since it'll be a hassle to scroll down to the video section if the screenshot section becomes huge. Last, but certainly not least, I would like to say you've done an amazing job with the video template mbc07. [[User:Garteal|─ Garteal]] ([[User talk:Garteal|talk]]) 16:13, 20 November 2012 (CET) | ||
:: I've updated the [[Template:VideoGallery/test]] with you suggestion Garteal. Looks good to me, because it already prevent any future issues with the Gallery standard if we have too many videos or too many screenshots. So, I'll commit this to [[Project:Wiki Conventions]] and then, we can start using this as the final standard for the media gallery... - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | :: I've updated the [[Template:VideoGallery/test]] with you suggestion Garteal. Looks good to me, because it already prevent any future issues with the Gallery standard if we have too many videos or too many screenshots. So, I'll commit this to [[Project:Wiki Conventions]] and then, we can start using this as the final standard for the media gallery... - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
:: Whoa whoa, why are the screenshots below the videos? *looks* Oh... Well... I disagree with this. The screenshots are smaller specifically to address this problem. And as Kolano said early, we probably won't have tons of them anyway. And this solution creates a bigger problem than it solves; it creates a mental disconnect. Having the video links so far away from the video thumbnails is simply making the links ''disappear'', camouflaged in a sea of text below it. I don't think the composition works like this. The only way to avoid that disconnect is to keep the the videos all together. Honestly, if we are going to worry about this, then the best solution for this would be to just go ahead and set up a proper gallery like the videogallery and get it over with. - [[User: | :: Whoa whoa, why are the screenshots below the videos? *looks* Oh... Well... I disagree with this. The screenshots are smaller specifically to address this problem. And as Kolano said early, we probably won't have tons of them anyway. And this solution creates a bigger problem than it solves; it creates a mental disconnect. Having the video links so far away from the video thumbnails is simply making the links ''disappear'', camouflaged in a sea of text below it. I don't think the composition works like this. The only way to avoid that disconnect is to keep the the videos all together. Honestly, if we are going to worry about this, then the best solution for this would be to just go ahead and set up a proper gallery like the videogallery and get it over with. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 07:19, 21 November 2012 (CET) | ||
:: I agree with Major. Separating the video links into a separate section seems silly, and the extra title just eats up more page space. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 07:48, 21 November 2012 (CET) | :: I agree with Major. Separating the video links into a separate section seems silly, and the extra title just eats up more page space. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 07:48, 21 November 2012 (CET) | ||
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Which covers the suspicious ones over the last 100 user registrations, though there are many more of these. I'm reluctant to perform preemptive blocks, but have a feeling we'll still be cleaning up after spammers for some time if we don't.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 08:56, 24 November 2012 (CET) | Which covers the suspicious ones over the last 100 user registrations, though there are many more of these. I'm reluctant to perform preemptive blocks, but have a feeling we'll still be cleaning up after spammers for some time if we don't.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 08:56, 24 November 2012 (CET) | ||
It is probably someone failing to use the SEO spambot tools properly, and not a nefarious plot for later. After all, I've never seen a spambot come back later, they have always ''always'' joined then immediately spammed. Here, you should [http://www.kernelmag.com/features/report/3191/revealed-the-grubby-world-of-comment-spam/ read this article], it gives a ton of information on the kind of spam we get here at the wiki. - [[User: | It is probably someone failing to use the SEO spambot tools properly, and not a nefarious plot for later. After all, I've never seen a spambot come back later, they have always ''always'' joined then immediately spammed. Here, you should [http://www.kernelmag.com/features/report/3191/revealed-the-grubby-world-of-comment-spam/ read this article], it gives a ton of information on the kind of spam we get here at the wiki. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 12:04, 4 December 2012 (CET) | ||
Solved by the change to question based captchas. Fixed by Delroth in late December of 2012. No new suspicious users or spammers are being made, but the old ones remain. | Solved by the change to question based captchas. Fixed by Delroth in late December of 2012. No new suspicious users or spammers are being made, but the old ones remain. | ||
=== Infobox Automation === | === Infobox Automation === | ||
Uh, your changes are breaking a few things. I'll just show you. Any time I make an edit, I get stuff like this: [[Metroid Prime: Trilogy]]. The stuff in the genre area is added as categories, except that area doesn't follow the category conventions. The only solution is to remove the existing categories and modify the genres area to fit the conventions. Of course, the vast majority of game articles' genre areas don't follow those category conventions... - [[User: | Uh, your changes are breaking a few things. I'll just show you. Any time I make an edit, I get stuff like this: [[Metroid Prime: Trilogy]]. The stuff in the genre area is added as categories, except that area doesn't follow the category conventions. The only solution is to remove the existing categories and modify the genres area to fit the conventions. Of course, the vast majority of game articles' genre areas don't follow those category conventions... - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 05:54, 1 December 2012 (CET) | ||
I'm working through correcting the genres now. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 05:55, 1 December 2012 (CET) | I'm working through correcting the genres now. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 05:55, 1 December 2012 (CET) | ||
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Ok, let me just be frank, I didn't like this idea in the first place. Automated infobox categories is limiting for genre blending titles such as this. But it does have some value, as everyone forgets those categories but us, so I see why you did it. So, I think it can work if we're flexible. So like, have "First-person action-adventure" in the infobox, and additional categories to help with navigation and inter-connectivity be nice and neatly tucked away on the bottom, where they belong. | Ok, let me just be frank, I didn't like this idea in the first place. Automated infobox categories is limiting for genre blending titles such as this. But it does have some value, as everyone forgets those categories but us, so I see why you did it. So, I think it can work if we're flexible. So like, have "First-person action-adventure" in the infobox, and additional categories to help with navigation and inter-connectivity be nice and neatly tucked away on the bottom, where they belong. | ||
Oh, and sorry about that Prime 2 edit. I thought I screwed up, and it didn't occur to me till later that you made changes behind me. Maybe it's meaningless, but I think it's important to handle stuff like this without edit wars, so I try to avoid stuff like that. - [[User: | Oh, and sorry about that Prime 2 edit. I thought I screwed up, and it didn't occur to me till later that you made changes behind me. Maybe it's meaningless, but I think it's important to handle stuff like this without edit wars, so I try to avoid stuff like that. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 08:53, 1 December 2012 (CET) | ||
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I think you have a good idea overall. This could really help expand inter-connectivity and give us a more consistant setup. That's awesome. That being said... I'm an artist, so the flow and structure of the page is very important to me. Still, "Sports, Boxing, Bowling, Golf, Baseball, Tennis, Swordplay, Wakeboarding, Frisbee, Archery, Basketball, Table Tennis, Golf, Bowling, Canoeing/Kayaking, Cycling" is an absolute disaster. And I know I know, the input list is long, but it's just that game, and there is no alternative for it. With genres, there is. | I think you have a good idea overall. This could really help expand inter-connectivity and give us a more consistant setup. That's awesome. That being said... I'm an artist, so the flow and structure of the page is very important to me. Still, "Sports, Boxing, Bowling, Golf, Baseball, Tennis, Swordplay, Wakeboarding, Frisbee, Archery, Basketball, Table Tennis, Golf, Bowling, Canoeing/Kayaking, Cycling" is an absolute disaster. And I know I know, the input list is long, but it's just that game, and there is no alternative for it. With genres, there is. | ||
I really like having an overflow of sorts for odd pages like this. Sort of how wikipedia handles it, and closer to our original. Whenever someone adds a new game article (other than us regulars), they would just put in what wikipedia has, or nothing at all. I don't think that making it consistent will have any impact on that. And it would give us a much better look to the page. So, for Wii Sports Resort, just have the primary category (Sports) and then fill in all the little blanks we want for interconnectivity. That is much much nicer. - [[User: | I really like having an overflow of sorts for odd pages like this. Sort of how wikipedia handles it, and closer to our original. Whenever someone adds a new game article (other than us regulars), they would just put in what wikipedia has, or nothing at all. I don't think that making it consistent will have any impact on that. And it would give us a much better look to the page. So, for Wii Sports Resort, just have the primary category (Sports) and then fill in all the little blanks we want for interconnectivity. That is much much nicer. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 10:31, 1 December 2012 (CET) | ||
I fear we loose the advantages of the automation and end up with inconsistent pages if we operate in a mixed mode. This only seems to be a real issue with ~10 pages, which also seems far too few out of the 1000+ total to be much put off by. Hopefully we can get some input from others. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 11:18, 1 December 2012 (CET) | I fear we loose the advantages of the automation and end up with inconsistent pages if we operate in a mixed mode. This only seems to be a real issue with ~10 pages, which also seems far too few out of the 1000+ total to be much put off by. Hopefully we can get some input from others. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 11:18, 1 December 2012 (CET) | ||
You know... if we put the platforms back into the infobox, we could get rid of all category additions to the bottom of the page. It would simplify game page creation, especially when pasting from wikipedia. Not to mention help newbies, since it's one less thing to worry about. We could just tell them to delete the non-Nintendo platforms, instead of telling them how to make categories, where to put them, and what categories to use. - [[User: | You know... if we put the platforms back into the infobox, we could get rid of all category additions to the bottom of the page. It would simplify game page creation, especially when pasting from wikipedia. Not to mention help newbies, since it's one less thing to worry about. We could just tell them to delete the non-Nintendo platforms, instead of telling them how to make categories, where to put them, and what categories to use. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 03:31, 7 January 2013 (CET) | ||
=== Compatibility List PAGESINCAT === | === Compatibility List PAGESINCAT === | ||
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3. by the time the wiki's list is updated, that's ''thousands of empties to fill'', so yea, alot of work. | 3. by the time the wiki's list is updated, that's ''thousands of empties to fill'', so yea, alot of work. | ||
Really, we'd need scripts to do this effectively, and that means figuring out the scripting API, getting delroth's and parlane's help, and alllll that. Without scripts, that means making thousands of pages manually, and that would take obscene amounts of time, even if they are blanks (something I think is quite dumb). So yea, making that PAGESINCAT thing display the right number is a absolute gigantic mess, so I say let's just avoid the problem entirely and remove the PAGESINCAT bit from all the pages. I don't think anyone is going to object to me saving us obscene amounts of work, so I'm going to just remove it. But in case anyone has alternatives, and because the tiny edit summary blank couldn't fit the explanation, I'm putting it here. - [[User: | Really, we'd need scripts to do this effectively, and that means figuring out the scripting API, getting delroth's and parlane's help, and alllll that. Without scripts, that means making thousands of pages manually, and that would take obscene amounts of time, even if they are blanks (something I think is quite dumb). So yea, making that PAGESINCAT thing display the right number is a absolute gigantic mess, so I say let's just avoid the problem entirely and remove the PAGESINCAT bit from all the pages. I don't think anyone is going to object to me saving us obscene amounts of work, so I'm going to just remove it. But in case anyone has alternatives, and because the tiny edit summary blank couldn't fit the explanation, I'm putting it here. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 12:00, 4 December 2012 (CET) | ||
== 2013 == | == 2013 == | ||
=== TOC Issues === | === TOC Issues === | ||
While working on the Dolphin Manual I've realized that it's going to have content box that will GIGANTIC. The biggest content box on the wiki ever. It will be even worse than the [[FAQ]]. I need a way to deal with this. Looking around, I found this: [[wikipedia:Template:TOC limit]] on wikipedia. It looks extremely simple, with very short code, and it would help. Honestly I'd rather have a put the TOC into the sidebar, like the mainsite's faq, but since we can't do that... this will do. Do you guys have any better ideas, or should I go on ahead and try this template? (and inevitably break something and need mbc07 to bail me out :P) - [[User: | While working on the Dolphin Manual I've realized that it's going to have content box that will GIGANTIC. The biggest content box on the wiki ever. It will be even worse than the [[FAQ]]. I need a way to deal with this. Looking around, I found this: [[wikipedia:Template:TOC limit]] on wikipedia. It looks extremely simple, with very short code, and it would help. Honestly I'd rather have a put the TOC into the sidebar, like the mainsite's faq, but since we can't do that... this will do. Do you guys have any better ideas, or should I go on ahead and try this template? (and inevitably break something and need mbc07 to bail me out :P) - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 06:47, 18 April 2013 (CEST) | ||
: Well, this fix the issues with the big TOC, so, you should try... The template is very simple, the only possible issue would be with our custom CSS schemes, but it should work without any problem - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | : Well, this fix the issues with the big TOC, so, you should try... The template is very simple, the only possible issue would be with our custom CSS schemes, but it should work without any problem - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
:: Ok, implemented it. Luckily, the template didn't cause issues with our custom CSS schemes (YAY!) [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | :: Ok, implemented it. Luckily, the template didn't cause issues with our custom CSS schemes (YAY!) [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
::: Thanks. See, now I'm so scared of templates that the time I asked you to do it, I actually could have done it *facepalm*. - [[User: | ::: Thanks. See, now I'm so scared of templates that the time I asked you to do it, I actually could have done it *facepalm*. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 22:04, 23 April 2013 (CEST) | ||
:::: Don't be scared guy, found a template, implement it. Caused issues or broke things? Don't worry, sooner or later somebody will help fixing it, after all, it's a community! It's the best way of learning, when the wiki was born (mid-2010, in Mamario's server), I spent a looong time breaking things when implementing templates, and almost all times I needed Kolano, Keller999 and ThatLuciano to fix up the mess. You'll see, soon you'll be creating/implementing very complex templates without any issues =D - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | :::: Don't be scared guy, found a template, implement it. Caused issues or broke things? Don't worry, sooner or later somebody will help fixing it, after all, it's a community! It's the best way of learning, when the wiki was born (mid-2010, in Mamario's server), I spent a looong time breaking things when implementing templates, and almost all times I needed Kolano, Keller999 and ThatLuciano to fix up the mess. You'll see, soon you'll be creating/implementing very complex templates without any issues =D - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
=== Heads up: website guides now hosted on the wiki === | === Heads up: website guides now hosted on the wiki === | ||
Just so you know, | Just so you know, MayImilae is probably aware of it since we already talked about it on IRC: the guides displayed on http://dolphin-emu.org/docs/guides/ are now hosted on the Dolphin Wiki. I purposely did not make it too obvious on the website (no link to the wiki page, no edit link, etc.) to avoid attracting vandals. | ||
If you want me to add any other good quality guide to the website, ping me by email (best way to make sure I notice your ping... I tend to miss stuff happening on the wiki). | If you want me to add any other good quality guide to the website, ping me by email (best way to make sure I notice your ping... I tend to miss stuff happening on the wiki). | ||
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:::Don't worry. However, my only suggestion here is using subpages instead of separate ones, like what we do with the Navigation template (eg. "Performance guide/en", "Performance guide/de", "Performance guide/fr") [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | :::Don't worry. However, my only suggestion here is using subpages instead of separate ones, like what we do with the Navigation template (eg. "Performance guide/en", "Performance guide/de", "Performance guide/fr") [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
::Delroth just gave me access to the main site's FAQ. Well... there wasn't a lot of activity on the wiki FAQ anyway, so hopefully that will help keep everything up to date. So I guess now it's time to remove our FAQ and link to the main site's FAQ. Anyone opposed? - [[User: | ::Delroth just gave me access to the main site's FAQ. Well... there wasn't a lot of activity on the wiki FAQ anyway, so hopefully that will help keep everything up to date. So I guess now it's time to remove our FAQ and link to the main site's FAQ. Anyone opposed? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 00:56, 10 April 2013 (CEST) | ||
::: We should have done this a long time ago, the wiki FAQ always had duplicated content, even when the site was hosted in Mamario's servers. Delete the Wiki FAQ!!! [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ::: We should have done this a long time ago, the wiki FAQ always had duplicated content, even when the site was hosted in Mamario's servers. Delete the Wiki FAQ!!! [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
:::: OK, but seems counter to the change that started this (i.e. moving guides from site to wiki). Why is it better that only limited folks can maintain the FAQ? If it's the content duplication that's of concern we might want to get rid of the other FAQ, and preserve the editable one on the wiki.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 04:06, 12 April 2013 (CEST) | :::: OK, but seems counter to the change that started this (i.e. moving guides from site to wiki). Why is it better that only limited folks can maintain the FAQ? If it's the content duplication that's of concern we might want to get rid of the other FAQ, and preserve the editable one on the wiki.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 04:06, 12 April 2013 (CEST) | ||
::::: The FAQ on the main website has several features that we want to preserve, most importantly internationalization. That's one of the reasons why I'm limiting who can edit the FAQ: every edit needs translators for more than 15 languages to update their versions of the FAQ. If one has to go, it won't be the one from the main website. I'm open to giving more people access to it though, it will never be completely open though. [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 09:39, 12 April 2013 (CEST) | ::::: The FAQ on the main website has several features that we want to preserve, most importantly internationalization. That's one of the reasons why I'm limiting who can edit the FAQ: every edit needs translators for more than 15 languages to update their versions of the FAQ. If one has to go, it won't be the one from the main website. I'm open to giving more people access to it though, it will never be completely open though. [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 09:39, 12 April 2013 (CEST) | ||
:::::: Deleted the wiki FAQ, and redirected to the mainsite FAQ. I have access, so if you see something just let me know. Delroth is going to be away for a while, but other devs have access to the site, so it shouldn't be too difficult to add someone if you ask. I see no reason why you guys (mbc07 and Kolano) couldn't be given access to the mainsite FAQ to help out. - [[User: | :::::: Deleted the wiki FAQ, and redirected to the mainsite FAQ. I have access, so if you see something just let me know. Delroth is going to be away for a while, but other devs have access to the site, so it shouldn't be too difficult to add someone if you ask. I see no reason why you guys (mbc07 and Kolano) couldn't be given access to the mainsite FAQ to help out. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 22:51, 23 April 2013 (CEST) | ||
=== AX-HLE === | === AX-HLE === | ||
According to Delroth, the new AX-HLE merger should fix the vast majority of DSP HLE issues. How are we going to update this? It's a ton of games, and I doubt we'll be able to get someone to test everything... - [[User: | According to Delroth, the new AX-HLE merger should fix the vast majority of DSP HLE issues. How are we going to update this? It's a ton of games, and I doubt we'll be able to get someone to test everything... - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 21:19, 2 April 2013 (CEST) | ||
:A rough approach would be filtering games that doesn't use AX UCode (Zelda, Mario Galaxy, etc.) and then crossing out all HLE problems in all game pages... It'll be easier to filter out games that doesn't use AX UCode than filtering games that use it... -[[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | :A rough approach would be filtering games that doesn't use AX UCode (Zelda, Mario Galaxy, etc.) and then crossing out all HLE problems in all game pages... It'll be easier to filter out games that doesn't use AX UCode than filtering games that use it... -[[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
::I asked Delroth, and unfortunately he doesn't have a list like that. One of the other devs might though. - [[User: | ::I asked Delroth, and unfortunately he doesn't have a list like that. One of the other devs might though. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 21:58, 2 April 2013 (CEST) | ||
:::Yeah, this is why the various developer infobox fields never got filled in properly. They would have been what we'd need to filter on something like this.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 22:13, 2 April 2013 (CEST) | :::Yeah, this is why the various developer infobox fields never got filled in properly. They would have been what we'd need to filter on something like this.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 22:13, 2 April 2013 (CEST) | ||
:::: Unfortunately we can't rely on that entirely. Skyward Sword uses AX. - [[User: | :::: Unfortunately we can't rely on that entirely. Skyward Sword uses AX. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 22:20, 2 April 2013 (CEST) | ||
::There are [http://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&redirs=0&ns0=1&search=HLE a lot of HLE mentions] on the Wiki though it's unclear how many of those ~2132 results are from test results and the like (If we can perform a regex search we can probably whittle that down to just the pages mentioning HLE in problems/compatibility). My guess would be that the HLE update will effect a bunch of titles that we never logged problems for though, so appropriately accounting for the update will still be problematic, even if we account for reviewing all the current HLE issues. I wonder if we could work out some scanning tools, similar to the ones for the title icon uploads to get a better DB of these sorts of wide-scale software types. There are various issues related to use of certain unsupported video codecs that might also be nice to scan for, I'm guessing there are other examples.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 22:13, 2 April 2013 (CEST) | ::There are [http://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&redirs=0&ns0=1&search=HLE a lot of HLE mentions] on the Wiki though it's unclear how many of those ~2132 results are from test results and the like (If we can perform a regex search we can probably whittle that down to just the pages mentioning HLE in problems/compatibility). My guess would be that the HLE update will effect a bunch of titles that we never logged problems for though, so appropriately accounting for the update will still be problematic, even if we account for reviewing all the current HLE issues. I wonder if we could work out some scanning tools, similar to the ones for the title icon uploads to get a better DB of these sorts of wide-scale software types. There are various issues related to use of certain unsupported video codecs that might also be nice to scan for, I'm guessing there are other examples.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 22:13, 2 April 2013 (CEST) | ||
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Now that we actually have access to the wiki on a basic level, I'm been investigating how to automate tasks here around the wiki. Stuff like updating the list of games, manipulating categories, on and on could be done wiki-wide with a script. We could potentially even kill spambots with it (or at least flag them to make clean up easier). There are all kinds of things we could do. Now obviously, I'm an artist, not a programmer, so my contributions to this are limited. But I can learn things quickly. Anyway, I think this could go a long way to help us save a ton of time in large scale modifications, and let us do things like updating game lists more often. For reference, here are some bots and scripts I found while looking around: [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Bots/Status|Bot Status]] - [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:List of bots by number of edits|Bot list sorted by edits]] - [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts/Scripts|User Scripts List]] - [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts/Tutorial|User Scripts Tutorial]]. | Now that we actually have access to the wiki on a basic level, I'm been investigating how to automate tasks here around the wiki. Stuff like updating the list of games, manipulating categories, on and on could be done wiki-wide with a script. We could potentially even kill spambots with it (or at least flag them to make clean up easier). There are all kinds of things we could do. Now obviously, I'm an artist, not a programmer, so my contributions to this are limited. But I can learn things quickly. Anyway, I think this could go a long way to help us save a ton of time in large scale modifications, and let us do things like updating game lists more often. For reference, here are some bots and scripts I found while looking around: [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Bots/Status|Bot Status]] - [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:List of bots by number of edits|Bot list sorted by edits]] - [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts/Scripts|User Scripts List]] - [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts/Tutorial|User Scripts Tutorial]]. | ||
Delroth and the devs brought this up, cause well, they are too lazy to do manual edits :P. Our needs would probably be better served by scripts than bots, but, having stuff done automatically might be nice sometimes. So, what do you guys think? Do you want bots and scripts, and if so, what would you want them for? - [[User: | Delroth and the devs brought this up, cause well, they are too lazy to do manual edits :P. Our needs would probably be better served by scripts than bots, but, having stuff done automatically might be nice sometimes. So, what do you guys think? Do you want bots and scripts, and if so, what would you want them for? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 14:51, 14 December 2012 (CET) | ||
Talking about bots, I wrote a simple script to update the [[Template:CurrentGitRevision]] page automatically when a commit is pushed to the Git repository. That should be one less thing to worry about. [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 03:35, 5 January 2013 (CET) | Talking about bots, I wrote a simple script to update the [[Template:CurrentGitRevision]] page automatically when a commit is pushed to the Git repository. That should be one less thing to worry about. [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 03:35, 5 January 2013 (CET) | ||
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*System to allow the revision template to understand GIT codes, restoring it's functionality from before the GIT migration | *System to allow the revision template to understand GIT codes, restoring it's functionality from before the GIT migration | ||
*Script to collected and create GameIDs and direct them to relevant pages | *Script to collected and create GameIDs and direct them to relevant pages | ||
I asked Delroth about the revision template recently. He said he could get it working with the new site in no time, but since that would cover only a tiny fraction of revisions, I told him to wait till he can put in a complete solution that ties to google code. To be honest I'd prefer the main site just be updated to go back all the way but eh, that isn't in their plans. - [[User: | I asked Delroth about the revision template recently. He said he could get it working with the new site in no time, but since that would cover only a tiny fraction of revisions, I told him to wait till he can put in a complete solution that ties to google code. To be honest I'd prefer the main site just be updated to go back all the way but eh, that isn't in their plans. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 03:25, 7 January 2013 (CET) | ||
I have a list of about 300 gameids which should redirect to existing Wiki pages. Could someone review http://codepad.org/RKdGIvUF and tell me if it's ok to mass-create these pages? [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 19:54, 2 February 2013 (CET) | I have a list of about 300 gameids which should redirect to existing Wiki pages. Could someone review http://codepad.org/RKdGIvUF and tell me if it's ok to mass-create these pages? [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 19:54, 2 February 2013 (CET) | ||
Talked with him about it in the channel. Everything either checks out or will create a double redirect. So, he'll upload it, and then we'll check the double redirects to fix any issues. Simple enough. - [[User: | Talked with him about it in the channel. Everything either checks out or will create a double redirect. So, he'll upload it, and then we'll check the double redirects to fix any issues. Simple enough. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 14:20, 3 February 2013 (CET) | ||
: I should actually be able to check for double redirects pretty easily. The bot will do it automatically. [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 15:49, 3 February 2013 (CET) | : I should actually be able to check for double redirects pretty easily. The bot will do it automatically. [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 15:49, 3 February 2013 (CET) | ||
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**MaxPlay_Classic_Games_Volume_1: This game is unlicensed and steals a gameID from other titles typically "NHL HITZ 20-02: GNHE5d" | **MaxPlay_Classic_Games_Volume_1: This game is unlicensed and steals a gameID from other titles typically "NHL HITZ 20-02: GNHE5d" | ||
**Channels and some WiiWare titles seem to use 4 character IDs, and aren't filtered from the 6 char list. Will need to avoid filtering the few non-Channel games, (i.e. History Channel ??? and Pokémon Channel). Dolphin seems to postfix these with "01", but was unclear how we want to handle them here. | **Channels and some WiiWare titles seem to use 4 character IDs, and aren't filtered from the 6 char list. Will need to avoid filtering the few non-Channel games, (i.e. History Channel ??? and Pokémon Channel). Dolphin seems to postfix these with "01", but was unclear how we want to handle them here. | ||
::Kolano, I talked with Delroth about the 4char GameIDs. Both the 4 and 6 character IDs are correct. The last two characters in a 6 character GameID is the publisher code. For WiiWare, Wii Channels, and Virtual Console games, Nintendo decided to detach the publisher code. Plus, the code is based on platform, not publisher. 01 NES, SNES, and N64 VC games, for example. The Dolphin devs decided to go for uniformity, and put the publisher code back in. So to Dolphin the GameID includes it, even though officially the GameID according to Nintendo does not. But it is official information from nintendo. - [[User: | ::Kolano, I talked with Delroth about the 4char GameIDs. Both the 4 and 6 character IDs are correct. The last two characters in a 6 character GameID is the publisher code. For WiiWare, Wii Channels, and Virtual Console games, Nintendo decided to detach the publisher code. Plus, the code is based on platform, not publisher. 01 NES, SNES, and N64 VC games, for example. The Dolphin devs decided to go for uniformity, and put the publisher code back in. So to Dolphin the GameID includes it, even though officially the GameID according to Nintendo does not. But it is official information from nintendo. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 11:41, 7 February 2013 (CET) | ||
:::Per that I guess we should have entries for both. There are likely some double redirects from when I first noticed this to clean-up, and the scripts here may need to be updated to also track the 4 char IDs. | :::Per that I guess we should have entries for both. There are likely some double redirects from when I first noticed this to clean-up, and the scripts here may need to be updated to also track the 4 char IDs. | ||
* http://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/compat.txt All values found in ratings pages (should have only 0/1/2/3/4/5 ideally) | * http://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/compat.txt All values found in ratings pages (should have only 0/1/2/3/4/5 ideally) | ||
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One thing I'd like to get a bot/script to perform would be mass search and replaces. For instance, we noticed a frequent mis-capitalization of Single-player as Single-Player. It's easy enough to search and find most instances of this, but actually editing/saving each page is tedious.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 07:17, 7 February 2013 (CET) | One thing I'd like to get a bot/script to perform would be mass search and replaces. For instance, we noticed a frequent mis-capitalization of Single-player as Single-Player. It's easy enough to search and find most instances of this, but actually editing/saving each page is tedious.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 07:17, 7 February 2013 (CET) | ||
:I second this. A find and replace script would be GREAT. - [[User: | :I second this. A find and replace script would be GREAT. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 09:55, 7 February 2013 (CET) | ||
::It's already in PyWikipediaBot (the framework I'm using). Just tell me what mass replaces you want to do and I'll run the bot. [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 14:44, 7 February 2013 (CET) | ::It's already in PyWikipediaBot (the framework I'm using). Just tell me what mass replaces you want to do and I'll run the bot. [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 14:44, 7 February 2013 (CET) | ||
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:::*Wiimote, wiimote > Wii Remote | :::*Wiimote, wiimote > Wii Remote | ||
::::Only in infoboxes or in the whole page text? Whole page text would be easier, but I can do both without too much of a problem. [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 11:57, 8 February 2013 (CET) | ::::Only in infoboxes or in the whole page text? Whole page text would be easier, but I can do both without too much of a problem. [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 11:57, 8 February 2013 (CET) | ||
:::::Personally I'd prefer you keep it to just infoboxes. There are times where I use Wiimote, Wii Remote, etc etc as variation in pages so it doesn't sound dull. - [[User: | :::::Personally I'd prefer you keep it to just infoboxes. There are times where I use Wiimote, Wii Remote, etc etc as variation in pages so it doesn't sound dull. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 14:13, 8 February 2013 (CET) | ||
::::::Wiimote should already be corrected in all infoboxes. Wiimote is not the appropriate name for the device though, so I'd personally prefer it be replaced everywhere. Though I don't really want to fight about it. The Single-player capitalization fix can be applied everywhere, but be careful about the capitalization (i.e. we don't want to capitalize lowercase single-player outside of infoboxes, but we would if it appears in an infobox. "Single-Player" to "Single-player" should be a safe global replacement though, if capitalization is respected). | ::::::Wiimote should already be corrected in all infoboxes. Wiimote is not the appropriate name for the device though, so I'd personally prefer it be replaced everywhere. Though I don't really want to fight about it. The Single-player capitalization fix can be applied everywhere, but be careful about the capitalization (i.e. we don't want to capitalize lowercase single-player outside of infoboxes, but we would if it appears in an infobox. "Single-Player" to "Single-player" should be a safe global replacement though, if capitalization is respected). | ||
:::::::Actually, Wiimote is used in dolphin for various settings, like Alternate Wiimote Timings. Wiimote should definitely NOT be replaced everywhere. - [[User: | :::::::Actually, Wiimote is used in dolphin for various settings, like Alternate Wiimote Timings. Wiimote should definitely NOT be replaced everywhere. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 04:18, 10 February 2013 (CET) | ||
:::::::That may be the case, but that just means Dolphin devs have failed to use the appropriate term for the device. It does unfortunately complicate the replacement though. | :::::::That may be the case, but that just means Dolphin devs have failed to use the appropriate term for the device. It does unfortunately complicate the replacement though. | ||
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[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 19:09, 10 March 2013 (CET) | [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 19:09, 10 March 2013 (CET) | ||
I agree, the navigation should be shown by default. Having it collasped is just a hold over from wikipedia. But for us, it's always very small, and it's very handy to have. So I think it should be shown. As for your ideas... I like the title row, so I don't want to just remove it. As for the "view" link, it provides an easy link to the template itself, so it has some use. As for the rest... I don't really care. *shrug* - [[User: | I agree, the navigation should be shown by default. Having it collasped is just a hold over from wikipedia. But for us, it's always very small, and it's very handy to have. So I think it should be shown. As for your ideas... I like the title row, so I don't want to just remove it. As for the "view" link, it provides an easy link to the template itself, so it has some use. As for the rest... I don't really care. *shrug* - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 19:46, 10 March 2013 (CET) | ||
: Ok, did some tweaks: all navigation templates are expanded by default and "view" link was removed. I agree with MaJor regarding to the title row, it should stay as is. I won't implement a cookie to store "hide/show" preference because it would be a lot of work for something that shouldn't be cared about. And since the code used to implement the functionality of the hide/show buttons are shared by a lot of templates, I can't remove it from navbar without breaking the show/hide functionality of Test Entries and the "contents" chart. Also, moving the talk and edit links to the upper-right corner caused a lot of issues with the positioning of show/hide button, so I'm just leaving it in the default position. - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | : Ok, did some tweaks: all navigation templates are expanded by default and "view" link was removed. I agree with MaJor regarding to the title row, it should stay as is. I won't implement a cookie to store "hide/show" preference because it would be a lot of work for something that shouldn't be cared about. And since the code used to implement the functionality of the hide/show buttons are shared by a lot of templates, I can't remove it from navbar without breaking the show/hide functionality of Test Entries and the "contents" chart. Also, moving the talk and edit links to the upper-right corner caused a lot of issues with the positioning of show/hide button, so I'm just leaving it in the default position. - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
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: Also, adding all banner images in a category would be nice, like [Category:Banner images]. Well, I'll try to exemplify this in a sandbox... [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | : Also, adding all banner images in a category would be nice, like [Category:Banner images]. Well, I'll try to exemplify this in a sandbox... [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
:I've thought about putting the banners in the infobox, but I haven't come up with a method that is actually useful. Let me explain. Our brains respond to visual stimuli far better than text. That's why a collection of icons on the desktop is better than a big list of words. Our brains are trained for this stuff. So, in the list inside the dolphin emulator, the job of the banners is to give a visual reference of the game, to exploit our how brains work and help us find stuff faster. On the wiki pages though, cover art already does that, and far better than the tiny banners. Banners on game pages would be kind of redundant. But we could use them in the same way that dolphin does... Banners would be pretty awesome in compatibility lists. Imagine the wii article with banners in it. It would give that quick visual reference that the lists need. I think it would be great there. - [[User: | :I've thought about putting the banners in the infobox, but I haven't come up with a method that is actually useful. Let me explain. Our brains respond to visual stimuli far better than text. That's why a collection of icons on the desktop is better than a big list of words. Our brains are trained for this stuff. So, in the list inside the dolphin emulator, the job of the banners is to give a visual reference of the game, to exploit our how brains work and help us find stuff faster. On the wiki pages though, cover art already does that, and far better than the tiny banners. Banners on game pages would be kind of redundant. But we could use them in the same way that dolphin does... Banners would be pretty awesome in compatibility lists. Imagine the wii article with banners in it. It would give that quick visual reference that the lists need. I think it would be great there. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 18:34, 6 February 2013 (CET) | ||
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::: There might be a way to get this to be fast with a custom MediaWiki extension and some CSS sprites usage (basically, only one large image would be loaded for each list page). I could learn how to do that if you think it would be a nice addition to the compatibility lists. [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 00:52, 7 February 2013 (CET) | ::: There might be a way to get this to be fast with a custom MediaWiki extension and some CSS sprites usage (basically, only one large image would be loaded for each list page). I could learn how to do that if you think it would be a nice addition to the compatibility lists. [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 00:52, 7 February 2013 (CET) | ||
::::The list table is rendered through MediaWiki markup, I'm unsure if we can mess CSS sprites with MediaWiki formatting without major issues. However, if this can be done without loading issues, the main list is the best way for having the banner images (better than in infobox VG) - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ::::The list table is rendered through MediaWiki markup, I'm unsure if we can mess CSS sprites with MediaWiki formatting without major issues. However, if this can be done without loading issues, the main list is the best way for having the banner images (better than in infobox VG) - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
:This is a good point... Dialup user here so, a giant image would SUCK for me. Lots of smaller images are easier to cache. But a thousand banners on the wii page would suck no matter what for me. - [[User: | :This is a good point... Dialup user here so, a giant image would SUCK for me. Lots of smaller images are easier to cache. But a thousand banners on the wii page would suck no matter what for me. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 04:50, 7 February 2013 (CET) | ||
=== Influx of Bot Generated Accounts === | === Influx of Bot Generated Accounts === | ||
I think we had discussed previously the accounts that seem to be generated by bots of some sort. The number of accounts registered is starting to get a bit ridiculous, even if there are no follow-up spam posts. Is the captcha/other constraints used configurable enough that they could be modified to stem the flow a bit? [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 17:39, 8 March 2014 (CET) | I think we had discussed previously the accounts that seem to be generated by bots of some sort. The number of accounts registered is starting to get a bit ridiculous, even if there are no follow-up spam posts. Is the captcha/other constraints used configurable enough that they could be modified to stem the flow a bit? [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 17:39, 8 March 2014 (CET) | ||
It is configurable, but what do we do? It appears as though they have figured out our captcha trick for account creation but then get hit on the post captcha, so we just get tons of random accounts. But we don't even have access to IP addresses to find similarities for banning :(. Do you have any ideas? - [[User: | It is configurable, but what do we do? It appears as though they have figured out our captcha trick for account creation but then get hit on the post captcha, so we just get tons of random accounts. But we don't even have access to IP addresses to find similarities for banning :(. Do you have any ideas? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 09:52, 9 March 2014 (CET) | ||
I'd have a feeling that things aren't targeting this wiki specifically. Adding some additional custom query, even if it didn't change with each registration, in addition to the standard one provided by the captcha tool might cut things down. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 17:18, 9 March 2014 (CET) | I'd have a feeling that things aren't targeting this wiki specifically. Adding some additional custom query, even if it didn't change with each registration, in addition to the standard one provided by the captcha tool might cut things down. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 17:18, 9 March 2014 (CET) | ||
Agreed. But I still need something more specific... Are you talking about a second captcha just for signing on? Or just a new custom query for our existing captcha system? - [[User: | Agreed. But I still need something more specific... Are you talking about a second captcha just for signing on? Or just a new custom query for our existing captcha system? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 23:00, 9 March 2014 (CET) | ||
Wouldn't a simple solution do it? E.g. adding the "you need to type in the name of the emulator here" bit that we use for editing articles to the registration, and/or adding another captcha? That wouldn't be too complicated to implement, and is a good first attempt: if it doesn't succeed, ok, we'll have to look into some more "advanced" options, if it does, yay, simple solution to the problem. [[User:Incassum|incassum]] ([[User talk:Incassum|talk]]) 19:54, 10 March 2014 (CET) | Wouldn't a simple solution do it? E.g. adding the "you need to type in the name of the emulator here" bit that we use for editing articles to the registration, and/or adding another captcha? That wouldn't be too complicated to implement, and is a good first attempt: if it doesn't succeed, ok, we'll have to look into some more "advanced" options, if it does, yay, simple solution to the problem. [[User:Incassum|incassum]] ([[User talk:Incassum|talk]]) 19:54, 10 March 2014 (CET) | ||
"you need to type in the name of the emulator here" is already in the registration process. - [[User: | "you need to type in the name of the emulator here" is already in the registration process. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 03:38, 11 March 2014 (CET) | ||
What about using more questions (randomly selecting one of them each time) or using a captcha method based on mouse input only, like these simple jigsaw puzzle based? Right now I remember of KeyCaptcha, but AFAIK it isn't free... [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | What about using more questions (randomly selecting one of them each time) or using a captcha method based on mouse input only, like these simple jigsaw puzzle based? Right now I remember of KeyCaptcha, but AFAIK it isn't free... [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
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I think I'd like to clean such up, standardizing to something like "<Category Grouping>:<Category Identifier>" so we'd have categories like "Platform: Arcade", "Genre: Arcade", "Publisher: Nintendo", "Input Supported: Wii Remote", "Initial Release Year: 2011". A lot of such can be performed with changes to Infobox, but some things like the platform/image categories would require many edits. I'd probably want some automated assistance with that. Feedback would be appreciated.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 08:28, 5 September 2013 (CEST) | I think I'd like to clean such up, standardizing to something like "<Category Grouping>:<Category Identifier>" so we'd have categories like "Platform: Arcade", "Genre: Arcade", "Publisher: Nintendo", "Input Supported: Wii Remote", "Initial Release Year: 2011". A lot of such can be performed with changes to Infobox, but some things like the platform/image categories would require many edits. I'd probably want some automated assistance with that. Feedback would be appreciated.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 08:28, 5 September 2013 (CEST) | ||
:I agree with this. Just the result of lots of manual editing over time. I trust you'll handle it well. If I see anything I don't like I'll whine. When you email delroth the instructions give us a headsup here please. - [[User: | :I agree with this. Just the result of lots of manual editing over time. I trust you'll handle it well. If I see anything I don't like I'll whine. When you email delroth the instructions give us a headsup here please. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 12:28, 6 September 2013 (CEST) | ||
::OK, initial change associated with this has been enacted. Will take a while for the initial template changes to percolate through the wiki. Should cover most of the categories outside of platforms, and any other direct in-page ones. Will likely start on the red-link elimination tomorrow (i.e. the 17th), not sure if there is any automation that could help with such. A few related issues: | ::OK, initial change associated with this has been enacted. Will take a while for the initial template changes to percolate through the wiki. Should cover most of the categories outside of platforms, and any other direct in-page ones. Will likely start on the red-link elimination tomorrow (i.e. the 17th), not sure if there is any automation that could help with such. A few related issues: | ||
::* One issue with the revised category names, is that although things still sort alphabetically. Since all categories in a group are prefixed with the same term, they no longer group together by letter. I think I may revise things to use a postfix instead to address that. Such will make the global categories listing messier (since groups won't group together), but would improve the display of individual category pages. Please let me know your thoughts. | ::* One issue with the revised category names, is that although things still sort alphabetically. Since all categories in a group are prefixed with the same term, they no longer group together by letter. I think I may revise things to use a postfix instead to address that. Such will make the global categories listing messier (since groups won't group together), but would improve the display of individual category pages. Please let me know your thoughts. | ||
::* When we transition the Platform categories, do we just want to move toward listing the platforms in the infobox, rather than as a separate item? [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 09:00, 17 September 2013 (CEST) | ::* When we transition the Platform categories, do we just want to move toward listing the platforms in the infobox, rather than as a separate item? [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 09:00, 17 September 2013 (CEST) | ||
:::Fine with me. I don't know anything regarding the revised category names grouping though, sorry. - [[User: | :::Fine with me. I don't know anything regarding the revised category names grouping though, sorry. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 04:58, 18 September 2013 (CEST) | ||
This is almost complete now. Unfortunately I failed to add categories to the newly created categories, so I need to do one more pass to add appropriate ones in. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 04:50, 17 October 2013 (CEST) | This is almost complete now. Unfortunately I failed to add categories to the newly created categories, so I need to do one more pass to add appropriate ones in. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 04:50, 17 October 2013 (CEST) | ||
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OK, I think I'm about done with my edits to how infobox generated categories are handled and the addition of linkages to those generated categories. Sorry for the recent spew of edits related to such without much discussion. Please do let me know your thoughts. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 06:11, 5 September 2013 (CEST) | OK, I think I'm about done with my edits to how infobox generated categories are handled and the addition of linkages to those generated categories. Sorry for the recent spew of edits related to such without much discussion. Please do let me know your thoughts. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 06:11, 5 September 2013 (CEST) | ||
:Looks good to me. I don't know about the internals of how it works, but I don't care about that :P. From an end user standpoint it looks and works great. That's what counts. - [[User: | :Looks good to me. I don't know about the internals of how it works, but I don't care about that :P. From an end user standpoint it looks and works great. That's what counts. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 12:28, 6 September 2013 (CEST) | ||
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We need to work this out. We've been putting off this rating thing forever, and now that demotions are starting to happen based on the old ratings, it's time to get this settled. Until this rating issue is settled please do not demote any more 5 star games. Kolano, if you revert 5 star pages I won't get into an edit war with you, you pretty much handle all the boring tasks like this and I respect that. But anyone else? I'm reverting all five star demotions until the ratings issue is settled permanently. | We need to work this out. We've been putting off this rating thing forever, and now that demotions are starting to happen based on the old ratings, it's time to get this settled. Until this rating issue is settled please do not demote any more 5 star games. Kolano, if you revert 5 star pages I won't get into an edit war with you, you pretty much handle all the boring tasks like this and I respect that. But anyone else? I'm reverting all five star demotions until the ratings issue is settled permanently. | ||
For the record, I promoted Melee to five stars based on encouragement from the devs that it qualified for "perfect" status regardless of the little bugs (again, skidau objecting :P). - [[User: | For the record, I promoted Melee to five stars based on encouragement from the devs that it qualified for "perfect" status regardless of the little bugs (again, skidau objecting :P). - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 22:27, 30 October 2013 (CET) | ||
=== Wii Network compatibility === | === Wii Network compatibility === | ||
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* Perfect: titles that works in Dolphin with all WFC features it has | * Perfect: titles that works in Dolphin with all WFC features it has | ||
I'm not sure where we could put this, but my only suggestion for now is having a entry in the Infobox of games that have WFC capabilities. For functionalities that may need a NAND dump (like getting DLC) we could "rate" as good and then put a small note or tooltip. What about that? [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | I'm not sure where we could put this, but my only suggestion for now is having a entry in the Infobox of games that have WFC capabilities. For functionalities that may need a NAND dump (like getting DLC) we could "rate" as good and then put a small note or tooltip. What about that? [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
:I'm not really a fan of this idea. It's a lot of information to deal with and will be very hard to maintain. Most users won't bother with it. Will you maintain it? - [[User: | :I'm not really a fan of this idea. It's a lot of information to deal with and will be very hard to maintain. Most users won't bother with it. Will you maintain it? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 04:37, 14 October 2013 (CEST) | ||
:I was also hoping to capture some further detail of titles with online features. Though many titles are covered by the "Online" modes indicator, that only covers titles supporting multiplayer online play. Some additional infobox field to show network characteristics is probably a good idea. I'd agree with major though, that we should be careful regarding the level of detail we go into. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 06:05, 14 October 2013 (CEST) | :I was also hoping to capture some further detail of titles with online features. Though many titles are covered by the "Online" modes indicator, that only covers titles supporting multiplayer online play. Some additional infobox field to show network characteristics is probably a good idea. I'd agree with major though, that we should be careful regarding the level of detail we go into. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 06:05, 14 October 2013 (CEST) | ||
:: What about something like the ratings template? You put a number in a template subpage with the name of the game and then in the infobox we display a small text (rather than stars). I'm willing to maintain games that I own (if we proceed implementing this), but if only one person is going to handle this then the amount of work needed to implement the functionality doesn't compensate. Any other idea to simplify this to an easier way of managing? [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | :: What about something like the ratings template? You put a number in a template subpage with the name of the game and then in the infobox we display a small text (rather than stars). I'm willing to maintain games that I own (if we proceed implementing this), but if only one person is going to handle this then the amount of work needed to implement the functionality doesn't compensate. Any other idea to simplify this to an easier way of managing? [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
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*2. A universal issues template. Considering it would only have to copy paste text, it should be pretty simple. The only issue I can forsee is integrating it in with the layout of the pages (like how various problems have links in the nav). Might be worth ignoring that however. But yea, ideally, all we'd have to do is put <nowiki>{{universalproblems|SNES}}</nowiki> onto all the SNES game pages, and bam, we have a super easy way to change the universal problems across the board. | *2. A universal issues template. Considering it would only have to copy paste text, it should be pretty simple. The only issue I can forsee is integrating it in with the layout of the pages (like how various problems have links in the nav). Might be worth ignoring that however. But yea, ideally, all we'd have to do is put <nowiki>{{universalproblems|SNES}}</nowiki> onto all the SNES game pages, and bam, we have a super easy way to change the universal problems across the board. | ||
Any thoughts on these ideas? For or against? - [[User: | Any thoughts on these ideas? For or against? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 20:09, 5 March 2013 (CET) | ||
:Hm, I liked... I can help with the templates, and if we change the main [[Virtual Console]] page to grid of buttons (like the main page), I can delete some crappy templates we've around here (some unfinished work that I didn't touch in the last 2 years -- completely useless now). Also, since we're going to do major changes in the main [[Virtual Console]], we could implement also an infobox with common information about the service, like the infobox we got in GameCube and Wii page. Regardless of what we do, I'm in with this whole thing - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) 22:29, 5 March 2013 (CET) | :Hm, I liked... I can help with the templates, and if we change the main [[Virtual Console]] page to grid of buttons (like the main page), I can delete some crappy templates we've around here (some unfinished work that I didn't touch in the last 2 years -- completely useless now). Also, since we're going to do major changes in the main [[Virtual Console]], we could implement also an infobox with common information about the service, like the infobox we got in GameCube and Wii page. Regardless of what we do, I'm in with this whole thing - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) 22:29, 5 March 2013 (CET) | ||
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*Arcade versus Virtual Console Arcade - Nintendo calls it the "Virtual Console Arcade", but here on the wiki it's always been just "Arcade". Any objections to changing it to Virtual Console Arcade? I'd rather like to do that. | *Arcade versus Virtual Console Arcade - Nintendo calls it the "Virtual Console Arcade", but here on the wiki it's always been just "Arcade". Any objections to changing it to Virtual Console Arcade? I'd rather like to do that. | ||
*The Platforms template lacks a lot of options that I could use. See [[wikipedia:Virtual Console]]. Any objections if I add a whole bunch? | *The Platforms template lacks a lot of options that I could use. See [[wikipedia:Virtual Console]]. Any objections if I add a whole bunch? | ||
Random block of text so my signature isn't in the bullet points and it's easier to comment beneath me. - [[User: | Random block of text so my signature isn't in the bullet points and it's easier to comment beneath me. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 18:34, 19 July 2013 (CEST) | ||
---- | ---- | ||
The revised VC page looks nice... | The revised VC page looks nice... | ||
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[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 17:17, 20 July 2013 (CEST) | [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 17:17, 20 July 2013 (CEST) | ||
:NICE! I had wanted to center it, but I didn't know how to center it while keeping the flexible width. Thanks. Any problems with applying this to the main page? - [[User: | :NICE! I had wanted to center it, but I didn't know how to center it while keeping the flexible width. Thanks. Any problems with applying this to the main page? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 19:11, 20 July 2013 (CEST) | ||
:: Done [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 21:52, 20 July 2013 (CEST) | :: Done [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 21:52, 20 July 2013 (CEST) | ||
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Let'me know what you guys think, I'll do my best to make this template this week... [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | Let'me know what you guys think, I'll do my best to make this template this week... [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
:Well, I disagree with you guys on the arcade, as "Virtual Console Arcade" is an exception to the systems rule, but alright, I won't fight on it. I have no idea what I'll do with that page though, if I can't use the virtual console arcade thumbnail and description... Anyway, as for the VC page, I'll go ahead and port it over. I don't know what to do about the grid size problem. I tried a bunch of stuff and didn't really get anywhere; it's still slightly off. Any suggestions? Lastly, the global problems template: You didn't mention where the editing of these problems takes place. I assume it would be in template:globalproblems? The template has all the systems global problems in one place, and you can edit them all there? As for having universal problems on each gamepage, we'll have to talk about that. It is reduntant, but without it users that just do a search to bring up games (a very common practice) would never see the global problems. I'm in favor of it (if we can get it to work well), so let's see what Kolano thinks and go from there. - [[User: | :Well, I disagree with you guys on the arcade, as "Virtual Console Arcade" is an exception to the systems rule, but alright, I won't fight on it. I have no idea what I'll do with that page though, if I can't use the virtual console arcade thumbnail and description... Anyway, as for the VC page, I'll go ahead and port it over. I don't know what to do about the grid size problem. I tried a bunch of stuff and didn't really get anywhere; it's still slightly off. Any suggestions? Lastly, the global problems template: You didn't mention where the editing of these problems takes place. I assume it would be in template:globalproblems? The template has all the systems global problems in one place, and you can edit them all there? As for having universal problems on each gamepage, we'll have to talk about that. It is reduntant, but without it users that just do a search to bring up games (a very common practice) would never see the global problems. I'm in favor of it (if we can get it to work well), so let's see what Kolano thinks and go from there. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 05:27, 22 July 2013 (CEST) | ||
:Oh yea, almost forgot. I'm not going to mess with the virtual console ratings templates. I know the plan is to make it so you can just hit edit a VC system page and edit it from there, just like you can on the Wii and GC pages, but uh, I'm afraid that if I do it I'm going to break everything. And honestly, with the compatibility page on the main site linking to those templates, it probably will regardless. When changing it double check the main page's compatibility page, and if they break send a PM to delroth about it, or let me know and I'll tell him. - [[User: | :Oh yea, almost forgot. I'm not going to mess with the virtual console ratings templates. I know the plan is to make it so you can just hit edit a VC system page and edit it from there, just like you can on the Wii and GC pages, but uh, I'm afraid that if I do it I'm going to break everything. And honestly, with the compatibility page on the main site linking to those templates, it probably will regardless. When changing it double check the main page's compatibility page, and if they break send a PM to delroth about it, or let me know and I'll tell him. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 05:40, 22 July 2013 (CEST) | ||
----- | ----- | ||
The VC ratings templates can (and probably will) be deprecated as soon as we merge the new page from sandbox, because the only functionality they provided was the master list in our old VC page (that is result of unfinished work: ugly and can't be easily sorted). I can do the move, but I prefer to wait the new VC page getting out of the sandbox. After that, the lists would work the same way of GC and Wii lists. | The VC ratings templates can (and probably will) be deprecated as soon as we merge the new page from sandbox, because the only functionality they provided was the master list in our old VC page (that is result of unfinished work: ugly and can't be easily sorted). I can do the move, but I prefer to wait the new VC page getting out of the sandbox. After that, the lists would work the same way of GC and Wii lists. | ||
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=== uDraw Wiimote / Inputs Handling === | === uDraw Wiimote / Inputs Handling === | ||
I read a bunch of reviews on the udraw games, and they all appear to be the same: The wiimote is not used any at all in the udraw games, it only provides power and connectivity. There is another accessory that works this way: the classic controller. Throughout the wiki, the classic controller is alone, and shown as just "Classic Controller" even though it requires a wiimote to power and provide connectivity. So, for that reason, I believe the udraw games should only have the udraw gametablet in the controller section. Any objections? - [[User: | I read a bunch of reviews on the udraw games, and they all appear to be the same: The wiimote is not used any at all in the udraw games, it only provides power and connectivity. There is another accessory that works this way: the classic controller. Throughout the wiki, the classic controller is alone, and shown as just "Classic Controller" even though it requires a wiimote to power and provide connectivity. So, for that reason, I believe the udraw games should only have the udraw gametablet in the controller section. Any objections? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 01:41, 21 May 2013 (CEST) | ||
Not sure. Regarding the Classic Controller, I'd kind of want to list the Wii Remote as well as the Classic Controller. That seems to be the way it's handled now outside of a few Virtual Console titles, though that may be due those games providing Wii Remote input too. I do apologize about renaming GameTablet to just Tablet, which I did to align with the regex's in infobox that pick up on the string "uDraw Tablet". Since noticing it's official name is the uDraw GameTablet I feel it should be named that way, but didn't want to muck around with all the related pages last night (it is on my "to do" list though). | Not sure. Regarding the Classic Controller, I'd kind of want to list the Wii Remote as well as the Classic Controller. That seems to be the way it's handled now outside of a few Virtual Console titles, though that may be due those games providing Wii Remote input too. I do apologize about renaming GameTablet to just Tablet, which I did to align with the regex's in infobox that pick up on the string "uDraw Tablet". Since noticing it's official name is the uDraw GameTablet I feel it should be named that way, but didn't want to muck around with all the related pages last night (it is on my "to do" list though). | ||
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In general since, per my current understanding, even if one has a uDraw Tablet you also need a Wii Remote to play I'm disprone to not list it as well as the uDraw. Honestly, we need a better format to distinguish optional from non-optional accessories, since I think there are a number of games that have Wii Remote + Nunchuk, where the Nunchuk is actually optional. In these cases the Wii Remote isn't optional though, so I'm prone to list it. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 06:44, 21 May 2013 (CEST) | In general since, per my current understanding, even if one has a uDraw Tablet you also need a Wii Remote to play I'm disprone to not list it as well as the uDraw. Honestly, we need a better format to distinguish optional from non-optional accessories, since I think there are a number of games that have Wii Remote + Nunchuk, where the Nunchuk is actually optional. In these cases the Wii Remote isn't optional though, so I'm prone to list it. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 06:44, 21 May 2013 (CEST) | ||
Well, the way I view it is control combinations. That's what's actually useful. Wiimote + Nunchuk makes sense for games that use them both. But there is even a Wii game that uses just the nunchuk and ignores the wiimote entirely, and it lists only the nunchuk (unless you changed it and I didn't notice). The other approach is to list the devices, but that really sucks in games like smash brothers, which use a wide variety of combinations. So yea... Seems we disagree. What now? - [[User: | Well, the way I view it is control combinations. That's what's actually useful. Wiimote + Nunchuk makes sense for games that use them both. But there is even a Wii game that uses just the nunchuk and ignores the wiimote entirely, and it lists only the nunchuk (unless you changed it and I didn't notice). The other approach is to list the devices, but that really sucks in games like smash brothers, which use a wide variety of combinations. So yea... Seems we disagree. What now? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 09:49, 21 May 2013 (CEST) | ||
Yeah, I'm not sure yet. Typically I've just been going by the listing on the rear of the NA/EU boxes that provides icons for each device supported. Beyond that I haven't been worrying about how the devices are used much, since it's hard to know exactly which control schemes are possible (i.e. is the nunchuk optional, can the nunchuk be used by itself, etc.) without the game. If there is a game that lists only the nunchuk now I would prefer to list it as "Wii Mote + Nunchuk", since I'd guess that's what the box would indicate. Maybe this could be resolved by providing separate input and control scheme rows, or perhaps just some clearer rules on how to indicate different control schemes (i.e. perhaps enable unbolding optional controls, though in this case the Wii Remote isn't really optional, and actually I'd guess based on how it slides into the uDraw that the buttons on the Wii Remote are used in games). These devices are different than things like the Wii Balance Board though, since they do use the Wii Remote for Bluetooth communication. | Yeah, I'm not sure yet. Typically I've just been going by the listing on the rear of the NA/EU boxes that provides icons for each device supported. Beyond that I haven't been worrying about how the devices are used much, since it's hard to know exactly which control schemes are possible (i.e. is the nunchuk optional, can the nunchuk be used by itself, etc.) without the game. If there is a game that lists only the nunchuk now I would prefer to list it as "Wii Mote + Nunchuk", since I'd guess that's what the box would indicate. Maybe this could be resolved by providing separate input and control scheme rows, or perhaps just some clearer rules on how to indicate different control schemes (i.e. perhaps enable unbolding optional controls, though in this case the Wii Remote isn't really optional, and actually I'd guess based on how it slides into the uDraw that the buttons on the Wii Remote are used in games). These devices are different than things like the Wii Balance Board though, since they do use the Wii Remote for Bluetooth communication. | ||
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One good thing to capture, if we do try to tackle control schemes would be games that support sideways Wii Remotes vs standard use, since there are clearly Dolphin options related to such.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 16:52, 21 May 2013 (CEST) | One good thing to capture, if we do try to tackle control schemes would be games that support sideways Wii Remotes vs standard use, since there are clearly Dolphin options related to such.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 16:52, 21 May 2013 (CEST) | ||
I looked up reviews on almost all of the udraw games. I couldn't find ''a single one'' that used the buttons on the Wii Remote. Reviewers even commented about this, for example asking why a platformer game was controlled with the stylus when there was a dpad right there. To my knowledge, the udraw games do not use the wii remote ''at all''. And yea, I agree with you on the sideways wiimote bit. I never really found a way to handle it though. Well, I really like the control config setup. It's very useful. And it usually isn't that difficult to figure out "Wiimote and nuchuk" 99% of the time means "wiimote + nunchuk" for example. Well, perhaps we should move this to the general discussions page, and try to get mbc07's opinion? - [[User: | I looked up reviews on almost all of the udraw games. I couldn't find ''a single one'' that used the buttons on the Wii Remote. Reviewers even commented about this, for example asking why a platformer game was controlled with the stylus when there was a dpad right there. To my knowledge, the udraw games do not use the wii remote ''at all''. And yea, I agree with you on the sideways wiimote bit. I never really found a way to handle it though. Well, I really like the control config setup. It's very useful. And it usually isn't that difficult to figure out "Wiimote and nuchuk" 99% of the time means "wiimote + nunchuk" for example. Well, perhaps we should move this to the general discussions page, and try to get mbc07's opinion? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 00:34, 22 May 2013 (CEST) | ||
Well, I think we should list all required inputs. For example, Classic controller needs Wii Remote to function properly, so, list Classic Controller and Wiimote, the same for uDraw tablet. Also, my suggestion for required and optional inputs would be using icons for all inputs (even the optionals), something like what we have on WiiBrew wiki (here is [http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/Deadly_Cobra_Wii an example] -- the infobox has a lot of icons, we could get only input related ones). This "design" can also provide visual feedback about how many controllers are supported in multiplayer and if the game uses sideways wiimote, etc. This would require a major rewrite of the wiki pages, but I think it's our best bet, since we don't have a standard for input listings. Also, since we don't have a documented "standard" right now, we can create one now and list it in [[Project:Wiki conventions]]. Furthermore, the input icons used in WiiBrew are using Creative Commons license, we could use (or create our icons based on it) without copyright/licensing issues... [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | Well, I think we should list all required inputs. For example, Classic controller needs Wii Remote to function properly, so, list Classic Controller and Wiimote, the same for uDraw tablet. Also, my suggestion for required and optional inputs would be using icons for all inputs (even the optionals), something like what we have on WiiBrew wiki (here is [http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/Deadly_Cobra_Wii an example] -- the infobox has a lot of icons, we could get only input related ones). This "design" can also provide visual feedback about how many controllers are supported in multiplayer and if the game uses sideways wiimote, etc. This would require a major rewrite of the wiki pages, but I think it's our best bet, since we don't have a standard for input listings. Also, since we don't have a documented "standard" right now, we can create one now and list it in [[Project:Wiki conventions]]. Furthermore, the input icons used in WiiBrew are using Creative Commons license, we could use (or create our icons based on it) without copyright/licensing issues... [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
I disagree on the required inputs bit. Especially for VC games and the like, it seems rather silly to list the Wii Remote when it does absolutely nothing at all ever for an entire class of games. Also, we have a standard, the combinations style is everywhere :P. Oh well, seems I'm outvoted on this. And it would be easier... Well, if we're going to have it just list the devices instead of combinations, what do we do with cases where things are complicated? The whole combinations system came about because of games like [[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]] where one device can perform multiple functions. Is there anyway to address this? - [[User: | I disagree on the required inputs bit. Especially for VC games and the like, it seems rather silly to list the Wii Remote when it does absolutely nothing at all ever for an entire class of games. Also, we have a standard, the combinations style is everywhere :P. Oh well, seems I'm outvoted on this. And it would be easier... Well, if we're going to have it just list the devices instead of combinations, what do we do with cases where things are complicated? The whole combinations system came about because of games like [[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]] where one device can perform multiple functions. Is there anyway to address this? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 01:50, 25 May 2013 (CEST) | ||
Well, in this case, List only uDraw Game Tablet and Classic Controller separated and add the combination system to all pages (to the VC games too). Whatever we do, add documentation to it somewhere to prevent future issues. Another option, if we're going to use the icons, is "merging" normal icons to represent combinations (like wiimote + nunchuck), but in this case, we leave Classic controller and uDraw as a separate icon, without combining them with wiimote... [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | Well, in this case, List only uDraw Game Tablet and Classic Controller separated and add the combination system to all pages (to the VC games too). Whatever we do, add documentation to it somewhere to prevent future issues. Another option, if we're going to use the icons, is "merging" normal icons to represent combinations (like wiimote + nunchuck), but in this case, we leave Classic controller and uDraw as a separate icon, without combining them with wiimote... [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
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It seems when content from the wiki is pulled into the forum ampersands in links are not escaped properly (i.e. "&" > "%26"). This causes the links to either be broken, or in some cases such as [[We Ski & Snowboard]] an entirely wrong page to be linked. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 16:38, 23 April 2013 (CEST) | It seems when content from the wiki is pulled into the forum ampersands in links are not escaped properly (i.e. "&" > "%26"). This causes the links to either be broken, or in some cases such as [[We Ski & Snowboard]] an entirely wrong page to be linked. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 16:38, 23 April 2013 (CEST) | ||
: We should inform delroth, since the links works and are parsed correctly when we are in the wiki, this probably is an issue with the "wiki => forum" rendering engine. [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | : We should inform delroth, since the links works and are parsed correctly when we are in the wiki, this probably is an issue with the "wiki => forum" rendering engine. [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
:: There is a bit of a bleh situation going on right now... delroth isn't available to be contacted. It will be a while. - [[User: | :: There is a bit of a bleh situation going on right now... delroth isn't available to be contacted. It will be a while. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 22:04, 23 April 2013 (CEST) | ||
=== DB Error === | === DB Error === | ||
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Whoever said that Mediawiki works with PostgreSQL is wrong/lying. | Whoever said that Mediawiki works with PostgreSQL is wrong/lying. | ||
:Reproduced. Apparently it happens in any file with a space in the name. Which is weird, since that has worked for a long time, and I even did it just a little while ago. *shrug*. I notified Parlane, and he confirmed what the anonymous poster above said. As Parlane put it: "basically there is a fix in the pipeline but the pipes are moving slow as fuck ?". I guess we need to just avoid using spaces in filenames until mediawiki fixes this? - [[User: | :Reproduced. Apparently it happens in any file with a space in the name. Which is weird, since that has worked for a long time, and I even did it just a little while ago. *shrug*. I notified Parlane, and he confirmed what the anonymous poster above said. As Parlane put it: "basically there is a fix in the pipeline but the pipes are moving slow as fuck ?". I guess we need to just avoid using spaces in filenames until mediawiki fixes this? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 08:02, 7 January 2014 (CET) | ||
:Oh, that was awesome. Since the fix was already done and just not committed to mediawiki master, Matt_P just applied it himself. It's fixed :D. Give it a try Kolano. And thanks anonymous guy, whoever you are. - [[User: | :Oh, that was awesome. Since the fix was already done and just not committed to mediawiki master, Matt_P just applied it himself. It's fixed :D. Give it a try Kolano. And thanks anonymous guy, whoever you are. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 08:27, 7 January 2014 (CET) | ||
=== Ratings Changes === | === Ratings Changes === | ||
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And of course it could use a little polishing in phrasing and the like. Still, I think overall this is a lot better. Removing "crashes on boot" gives us more room in 3-4-5 to make the ratings more specific. Plus, most of the changes are in the 1-2 star range, so it won't require us change ratings for every single game on the entire wiki. That's definitely a benefit. | And of course it could use a little polishing in phrasing and the like. Still, I think overall this is a lot better. Removing "crashes on boot" gives us more room in 3-4-5 to make the ratings more specific. Plus, most of the changes are in the 1-2 star range, so it won't require us change ratings for every single game on the entire wiki. That's definitely a benefit. | ||
So guys, what do you think? We'll need to get as many specifics as we can hammered out before we go along with this. If things get too complicated we can use [[Project:Wiki Conventions]] for detailed information and have a trimmed down version in the ratings guide. It's work, definitely, but this is a long standing crappy system that really could use an overhaul. When it's done, this should be a nice improvement for us. - [[User: | So guys, what do you think? We'll need to get as many specifics as we can hammered out before we go along with this. If things get too complicated we can use [[Project:Wiki Conventions]] for detailed information and have a trimmed down version in the ratings guide. It's work, definitely, but this is a long standing crappy system that really could use an overhaul. When it's done, this should be a nice improvement for us. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 06:11, 23 August 2013 (CEST) | ||
: Well, I'm in with it. About rating 4 and 5, I think that if a game need an extreme setting (interpreter, LLE, EFB to Ram uncached, MMU), we should mark it as 4. Otherwise, mark it as 5. And for graphical related issues, if the problem is backend specific and the issue can be fixed by using OpenGL (that works Windows/Mac/Linux), we should mark as 5, otherwise mark it as 4. Despite this two notes, I agree with the rest - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | : Well, I'm in with it. About rating 4 and 5, I think that if a game need an extreme setting (interpreter, LLE, EFB to Ram uncached, MMU), we should mark it as 4. Otherwise, mark it as 5. And for graphical related issues, if the problem is backend specific and the issue can be fixed by using OpenGL (that works Windows/Mac/Linux), we should mark as 5, otherwise mark it as 4. Despite this two notes, I agree with the rest - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
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I think we had discussed previously the accounts that seem to be generated by bots of some sort. The number of accounts registered is starting to get a bit ridiculous, even if there are no follow-up spam posts. Is the captcha/other constraints used configurable enough that they could be modified to stem the flow a bit? [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 17:39, 8 March 2014 (CET) | I think we had discussed previously the accounts that seem to be generated by bots of some sort. The number of accounts registered is starting to get a bit ridiculous, even if there are no follow-up spam posts. Is the captcha/other constraints used configurable enough that they could be modified to stem the flow a bit? [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 17:39, 8 March 2014 (CET) | ||
It is configurable, but what do we do? It appears as though they have figured out our captcha trick for account creation but then get hit on the post captcha, so we just get tons of random accounts. But we don't even have access to IP addresses to find similarities for banning :(. Do you have any ideas? - [[User: | It is configurable, but what do we do? It appears as though they have figured out our captcha trick for account creation but then get hit on the post captcha, so we just get tons of random accounts. But we don't even have access to IP addresses to find similarities for banning :(. Do you have any ideas? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 09:52, 9 March 2014 (CET) | ||
I'd have a feeling that things aren't targeting this wiki specifically. Adding some additional custom query, even if it didn't change with each registration, in addition to the standard one provided by the captcha tool might cut things down. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 17:18, 9 March 2014 (CET) | I'd have a feeling that things aren't targeting this wiki specifically. Adding some additional custom query, even if it didn't change with each registration, in addition to the standard one provided by the captcha tool might cut things down. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 17:18, 9 March 2014 (CET) | ||
Agreed. But I still need something more specific... Are you talking about a second captcha just for signing on? Or just a new custom query for our existing captcha system? - [[User: | Agreed. But I still need something more specific... Are you talking about a second captcha just for signing on? Or just a new custom query for our existing captcha system? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 23:00, 9 March 2014 (CET) | ||
Wouldn't a simple solution do it? E.g. adding the "you need to type in the name of the emulator here" bit that we use for editing articles to the registration, and/or adding another captcha? That wouldn't be too complicated to implement, and is a good first attempt: if it doesn't succeed, ok, we'll have to look into some more "advanced" options, if it does, yay, simple solution to the problem. [[User:Incassum|incassum]] ([[User talk:Incassum|talk]]) 19:54, 10 March 2014 (CET) | Wouldn't a simple solution do it? E.g. adding the "you need to type in the name of the emulator here" bit that we use for editing articles to the registration, and/or adding another captcha? That wouldn't be too complicated to implement, and is a good first attempt: if it doesn't succeed, ok, we'll have to look into some more "advanced" options, if it does, yay, simple solution to the problem. [[User:Incassum|incassum]] ([[User talk:Incassum|talk]]) 19:54, 10 March 2014 (CET) | ||
"you need to type in the name of the emulator here" is already in the registration process. - [[User: | "you need to type in the name of the emulator here" is already in the registration process. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 03:38, 11 March 2014 (CET) | ||
What about using more questions (randomly selecting one of them each time) or using a captcha method based on mouse input only, like these simple jigsaw puzzle based? Right now I remember of KeyCaptcha, but AFAIK it isn't free... [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | What about using more questions (randomly selecting one of them each time) or using a captcha method based on mouse input only, like these simple jigsaw puzzle based? Right now I remember of KeyCaptcha, but AFAIK it isn't free... [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
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==2015== | ==2015== | ||
=== 16:9 and F-Zero GX's custom cars problem restoration === | === 16:9 and F-Zero GX's custom cars problem restoration === | ||
Since the edit summary has very little space, I'm going to fill in the details here. Both of these problems (and the powersliding bug) are problems that users encountered in the emulator and asked about on the forums or made issue reports about. The custom car bug was frequently encountered and everyone thought it was Dolphin's fault, and many users have been caught running this game with widescreen hacks and asking for help with bugs! The problems are there to preemptively inform them so they will not experience the problem in the first place. They are in the problems area because to a user, it is a problem, and the problems area is where solutions to problems lie. They are however on the bottom, since they are the least important. As for 16:9 being in enhancements, Lucario's logic is not entirely wrong, as you have to do it on the console so it is an issue that would be encountered there as well. But it is wrong in that it can't be an enhancement if it is a feature of the game and not something dolphin is adding to it. Furthermore, the problem of users using the widescreen hack and then having problems with it IS a dolphin-unique problem, and this is meant to address that specifically. So the problems area is the spot it belongs in most. - [[User: | Since the edit summary has very little space, I'm going to fill in the details here. Both of these problems (and the powersliding bug) are problems that users encountered in the emulator and asked about on the forums or made issue reports about. The custom car bug was frequently encountered and everyone thought it was Dolphin's fault, and many users have been caught running this game with widescreen hacks and asking for help with bugs! The problems are there to preemptively inform them so they will not experience the problem in the first place. They are in the problems area because to a user, it is a problem, and the problems area is where solutions to problems lie. They are however on the bottom, since they are the least important. As for 16:9 being in enhancements, Lucario's logic is not entirely wrong, as you have to do it on the console so it is an issue that would be encountered there as well. But it is wrong in that it can't be an enhancement if it is a feature of the game and not something dolphin is adding to it. Furthermore, the problem of users using the widescreen hack and then having problems with it IS a dolphin-unique problem, and this is meant to address that specifically. So the problems area is the spot it belongs in most. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 07:48, 4 November 2015 (CET) | ||
:I haven't thought of the part where users should turn "widescreen hack" off when using the widescreen mode in the game, hence the problem on emulation side where the widescreen hack exist. I'll give you that. I'm also thinking of a new section titled "User Errors" where we can list common errors that was on the user's side. Then the custom car problem can go there and the two players one ctrl problem in Super Smash Bros. Brawl and possibly others. What's your thoughts on this? [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 08:50, 4 November 2015 (CET) | :I haven't thought of the part where users should turn "widescreen hack" off when using the widescreen mode in the game, hence the problem on emulation side where the widescreen hack exist. I'll give you that. I'm also thinking of a new section titled "User Errors" where we can list common errors that was on the user's side. Then the custom car problem can go there and the two players one ctrl problem in Super Smash Bros. Brawl and possibly others. What's your thoughts on this? [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 08:50, 4 November 2015 (CET) | ||
::Hmm... I think a new section is a good idea! But I'm not sure "Users Errors" is a good naming for it though... What about bugs that happen in the game that dolphin recreates, but that users think are actually dolphin problems? See the F-Zero GX powersliding bug, star fox adventures and super mario galaxy reflections, etc etc. Where would they go? So a different term might be a good idea... - [[User: | ::Hmm... I think a new section is a good idea! But I'm not sure "Users Errors" is a good naming for it though... What about bugs that happen in the game that dolphin recreates, but that users think are actually dolphin problems? See the F-Zero GX powersliding bug, star fox adventures and super mario galaxy reflections, etc etc. Where would they go? So a different term might be a good idea... - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 09:58, 4 November 2015 (CET) | ||
:::Major raises a good point here. I would like to be consistent in how we handle things, so many of these non-emu bugs have been irksome in the Problems sections. Perhaps "Non-Emulation Problems" would be a inoffensive title for these. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 10:05, 4 November 2015 (CET) | :::Major raises a good point here. I would like to be consistent in how we handle things, so many of these non-emu bugs have been irksome in the Problems sections. Perhaps "Non-Emulation Problems" would be a inoffensive title for these. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 10:05, 4 November 2015 (CET) | ||
::::"Non-Emulation Problems" sounds better and it can cover more problems above, but doesn't felt right for certain kinds of problem, such as the two players and one controller in SSBB. Dolphin is still at fault for allowing the different controller settings to use the same device twice. I was thinking of a less technical term and I came up with probably the best term for all of these problems! "Common Misconceptions"? | ::::"Non-Emulation Problems" sounds better and it can cover more problems above, but doesn't felt right for certain kinds of problem, such as the two players and one controller in SSBB. Dolphin is still at fault for allowing the different controller settings to use the same device twice. I was thinking of a less technical term and I came up with probably the best term for all of these problems! "Common Misconceptions"? | ||
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::::::Also there are images in [[F-Zero GX#Emulation Information]] section. Since they aren't bug images in the Dolphin sense, these images need to be categorized differently. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 21:42, 5 November 2015 (CET) | ::::::Also there are images in [[F-Zero GX#Emulation Information]] section. Since they aren't bug images in the Dolphin sense, these images need to be categorized differently. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 21:42, 5 November 2015 (CET) | ||
:::::::The reason I came up with "Emulation Information" is because it sounds more general than "Common Misconceptions". It's very general that even the "problem" section can move under it. I'm viewing "problem" and "emulation info" similar except that "emulation info" can arbitrarily accept more things, especially the misconceptions and others that Dolphin won't fix/help because of the user incompetence. I was thinking this might cover the font issue in Sonic game as well as it still requires users to dump the BIOS for best accuracy. Not something Dolphin can help. Though, Kolano was thinking otherwise. Maybe Kolano didn't see the "Emulation Information" an applicable term for the emulation problems as well as I do (until he read this?!). Also about moving that section up above the problem section, I'd say go for it! [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 22:43, 5 November 2015 (CET) | :::::::The reason I came up with "Emulation Information" is because it sounds more general than "Common Misconceptions". It's very general that even the "problem" section can move under it. I'm viewing "problem" and "emulation info" similar except that "emulation info" can arbitrarily accept more things, especially the misconceptions and others that Dolphin won't fix/help because of the user incompetence. I was thinking this might cover the font issue in Sonic game as well as it still requires users to dump the BIOS for best accuracy. Not something Dolphin can help. Though, Kolano was thinking otherwise. Maybe Kolano didn't see the "Emulation Information" an applicable term for the emulation problems as well as I do (until he read this?!). Also about moving that section up above the problem section, I'd say go for it! [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 22:43, 5 November 2015 (CET) | ||
::::::::I think emulation issues is a perfectly good term. Its clear on what its purpose is without being so specific that it excludes too much. It's good! - [[User: | ::::::::I think emulation issues is a perfectly good term. Its clear on what its purpose is without being so specific that it excludes too much. It's good! - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 11:33, 9 November 2015 (CET) | ||
:::::::::Just to make sure, are you suggesting Emulation Issues or you're OK with Emulation Information? - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | :::::::::Just to make sure, are you suggesting Emulation Issues or you're OK with Emulation Information? - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
::::::::::I'll give ''emulation information'' this: It '''is''' better than what we use to have but I still find it not the best solution to the problem. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 22:46, 9 November 2015 (CET) | ::::::::::I'll give ''emulation information'' this: It '''is''' better than what we use to have but I still find it not the best solution to the problem. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 22:46, 9 November 2015 (CET) | ||
:::::::::::Um... I don't care? By consensus the new section already is official, I was just asking | :::::::::::Um... I don't care? By consensus the new section already is official, I was just asking MayImilae specifically about her thoughts of the new section naming. - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
::::::::::::Oh! I'm sorry! I meant Emulation Information. - [[User: | ::::::::::::Oh! I'm sorry! I meant Emulation Information. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 05:35, 10 November 2015 (CET) | ||
=== 16:9 / Outdated Banners === | === 16:9 / Outdated Banners === | ||
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:* It might be ugly now but the idea behind banners is to be a sign with important information. The position it is located now may change later. | :* It might be ugly now but the idea behind banners is to be a sign with important information. The position it is located now may change later. | ||
---- | ---- | ||
::<nowiki>*sigh*</nowiki> And not related to this but why you also want to convert problems into banners? Dual-Layer games already have its own category which is easy to reach from the bottom of the page, GC games with 16:9 native support already have an entry in problems section and in those cases both will be moved to the new Emulation Info/Common Misconceptions (or whatever name we choose) and can also be accessed through its own categories. And about your complaint regarding unnecessary edits, font problem in Sonic Mega Collection was moved back and forth because of my initial complaints about the subject but eventually settled in Problems section. How this template or your banners-that-go-before-anything-else would have improved this particular case? Just stop, you made an ugly proof of concept where I can't see any way to improve, nor it provides anything better than the new section we're discussing in [[Talk:F-Zero GX]], not to mention you didn't provide any feasible reason. Unless other admins ( | ::<nowiki>*sigh*</nowiki> And not related to this but why you also want to convert problems into banners? Dual-Layer games already have its own category which is easy to reach from the bottom of the page, GC games with 16:9 native support already have an entry in problems section and in those cases both will be moved to the new Emulation Info/Common Misconceptions (or whatever name we choose) and can also be accessed through its own categories. And about your complaint regarding unnecessary edits, font problem in Sonic Mega Collection was moved back and forth because of my initial complaints about the subject but eventually settled in Problems section. How this template or your banners-that-go-before-anything-else would have improved this particular case? Just stop, you made an ugly proof of concept where I can't see any way to improve, nor it provides anything better than the new section we're discussing in [[Talk:F-Zero GX]], not to mention you didn't provide any feasible reason. Unless other admins (MayImilae, Kolano) or active members like Lucario weight in pointing something positive in favouring this approach, you can consider this whole "problem rating" thing something that won't go anywhere else besides the F-Zero GX sandbox. ''If it ain't broke, don't fix it'' - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
---- | ---- | ||
::::*'''"Maybe it's better to also have in that Infobox the WidescreenGCN and DualLayerWiiDisc banners? That might be the happy middle ground that everyone will like when it comes to the Template:WidescreenGCN and Template:DualLayerWiiDiscs banners."''' - From all of this discussion that's the only thing you brought that may work, from my point of view. Again, those banner templates are completely unnecessary. First, banners won't look good inside the Infobox no matter how you design them, second, if we're going to put new things in Infobox we could just make the its template handle the categories for those cases as well (reinforcing there's no need for separate templates like WidescreenGCN and DualLayerWiiDisc) since it already handles lots of categories based on the info put in the Infobox. My approach to get those "notes" in the Infobox would be discrete icons with mouse-hover, like the peripherals section of [http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/Homebrew_Browser any homebrew app in WiiBrew], they are discrete (unlikely banners) and doesn't disrupt content flow. | ::::*'''"Maybe it's better to also have in that Infobox the WidescreenGCN and DualLayerWiiDisc banners? That might be the happy middle ground that everyone will like when it comes to the Template:WidescreenGCN and Template:DualLayerWiiDiscs banners."''' - From all of this discussion that's the only thing you brought that may work, from my point of view. Again, those banner templates are completely unnecessary. First, banners won't look good inside the Infobox no matter how you design them, second, if we're going to put new things in Infobox we could just make the its template handle the categories for those cases as well (reinforcing there's no need for separate templates like WidescreenGCN and DualLayerWiiDisc) since it already handles lots of categories based on the info put in the Infobox. My approach to get those "notes" in the Infobox would be discrete icons with mouse-hover, like the peripherals section of [http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/Homebrew_Browser any homebrew app in WiiBrew], they are discrete (unlikely banners) and doesn't disrupt content flow. | ||
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=== Emulation Information Position === | === Emulation Information Position === | ||
Lucario, in his recent edits, put the Emulation Information section above problems, while I have historically put them below. It is something of a subjective decision, but most of the time the problems are minor, and not as critical as emulation bugs, so historically, by our conventions, they have been placed below other problems. So I assumed based on that that the Emulation Information would be placed beneath problems, and sometimes they were, and other times they weren't depending on who entered it. I was going to just move it all, but this could cause issues in the future, so we should probably get some consensus established. What location for the emulation information do you guys prefer? - [[User: | Lucario, in his recent edits, put the Emulation Information section above problems, while I have historically put them below. It is something of a subjective decision, but most of the time the problems are minor, and not as critical as emulation bugs, so historically, by our conventions, they have been placed below other problems. So I assumed based on that that the Emulation Information would be placed beneath problems, and sometimes they were, and other times they weren't depending on who entered it. I was going to just move it all, but this could cause issues in the future, so we should probably get some consensus established. What location for the emulation information do you guys prefer? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 10:46, 17 November 2015 (CET) | ||
: As far as I remember, we sticked with Emulation Information above problems but I'm not sure either (would have to dig into that long discussions -- too lazy to do that now). So, I think we should put it above. Yes, they're minor, but it's also some very common problems, thus, it's what the user wold read first if they have issues with a bad dump (SSBB case), problems with widescreen hack (GC games with native support) or controller issues (Wii games), providing information quicker instead of rolling through the entire problems section, that can take a big amount of space (e.g. Wind Waker, which have lots of problems listed). And since emulation information isn't a section that's going to be crowded (so far I haven't saw any page with more than two small entries) I think it's a win-win case (the full page would be something like Emu Info => Global Problems => Problems => Enhancements => Config => Version Compat => Testing => Gameplay Screens => Gameplay Videos => Navigation -- Emu Info and Enhancements only present in pages that have suitable entries, Global Problems only in VC pages and Navigation only where applicable). - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | : As far as I remember, we sticked with Emulation Information above problems but I'm not sure either (would have to dig into that long discussions -- too lazy to do that now). So, I think we should put it above. Yes, they're minor, but it's also some very common problems, thus, it's what the user wold read first if they have issues with a bad dump (SSBB case), problems with widescreen hack (GC games with native support) or controller issues (Wii games), providing information quicker instead of rolling through the entire problems section, that can take a big amount of space (e.g. Wind Waker, which have lots of problems listed). And since emulation information isn't a section that's going to be crowded (so far I haven't saw any page with more than two small entries) I think it's a win-win case (the full page would be something like Emu Info => Global Problems => Problems => Enhancements => Config => Version Compat => Testing => Gameplay Screens => Gameplay Videos => Navigation -- Emu Info and Enhancements only present in pages that have suitable entries, Global Problems only in VC pages and Navigation only where applicable). - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
:It's position doesn't bother me one way or the other. To hopefully build consensus I'll say list them first. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 15:40, 17 November 2015 (CET) | :It's position doesn't bother me one way or the other. To hopefully build consensus I'll say list them first. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 15:40, 17 November 2015 (CET) | ||
::Well, I don't entirely agree, but you have reasonable thought behind it, and Kolano got me :P. The top it is! - [[User: | ::Well, I don't entirely agree, but you have reasonable thought behind it, and Kolano got me :P. The top it is! - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 11:32, 18 November 2015 (CET) | ||
=== Config Template Slight Wording Tweak === | === Config Template Slight Wording Tweak === | ||
After having a talk with [[User talk:Kolano#Edit You Did|Kolano]] about having my confusion cleared up what should be included in the configuration section of each disc wiki page, I think [[Template:Config|the template]] should read "Only configuration options for the best ''accuracy'' where they deviate from defaults are listed" instead of "Only configuration options for the best ''compatibility'' where they deviate from defaults are listed" (without italics). Anyone agree? --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 21:11, 24 April 2015 (CEST) | After having a talk with [[User talk:Kolano#Edit You Did|Kolano]] about having my confusion cleared up what should be included in the configuration section of each disc wiki page, I think [[Template:Config|the template]] should read "Only configuration options for the best ''accuracy'' where they deviate from defaults are listed" instead of "Only configuration options for the best ''compatibility'' where they deviate from defaults are listed" (without italics). Anyone agree? --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 21:11, 24 April 2015 (CEST) | ||
:Compatibility = accuracy, pretty much. This wiki uses the term compatibility because the word is used alway used to describe how well a game plays in an emulator. And the language is consistent and pervasive throughout the wiki and the site: "Compatibility Wiki" with "Compatibility Lists" (see the left sidebar) and "Compatibility Ratings". Even the main page has a compatibility section with compatibility ratings from this wiki! It's all tied into larger emulation concepts of what the word compatibility means for an emulator, and I think it's still a valid term. We could change it to accuracy just there for clarity, but then it becomes out of sync with the terminology in the rest of the wiki, which imo should remain compatibility. I'm not like completely opposed or anything, but I'm not really in favor of this idea. Anyone familiar with emulation should get what compatibility is pretty quickly. - [[User: | :Compatibility = accuracy, pretty much. This wiki uses the term compatibility because the word is used alway used to describe how well a game plays in an emulator. And the language is consistent and pervasive throughout the wiki and the site: "Compatibility Wiki" with "Compatibility Lists" (see the left sidebar) and "Compatibility Ratings". Even the main page has a compatibility section with compatibility ratings from this wiki! It's all tied into larger emulation concepts of what the word compatibility means for an emulator, and I think it's still a valid term. We could change it to accuracy just there for clarity, but then it becomes out of sync with the terminology in the rest of the wiki, which imo should remain compatibility. I'm not like completely opposed or anything, but I'm not really in favor of this idea. Anyone familiar with emulation should get what compatibility is pretty quickly. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 08:44, 29 April 2015 (CEST) | ||
::As defined by Google: "A state in which two things are able to exist or occur together without problems or conflict." That doesn't describe accurate emulation because there are some problems even with that like speed loss. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 09:43, 29 April 2015 (CEST) | ::As defined by Google: "A state in which two things are able to exist or occur together without problems or conflict." That doesn't describe accurate emulation because there are some problems even with that like speed loss. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 09:43, 29 April 2015 (CEST) | ||
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It's a little redundant but this design make sure that all Dolphin users will see these problems, even people who jumps directly in the game page through the Wiki context menu present in Dolphin itself. Furthermore, [[The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask]] is already using the global template and I'm going to remove that "test issue" from the VC global templates soon, I need it for testing. Before committing this to the other platforms, I'll (try to) fix all spacing problems and make the template source more readable, but I need feedback here, any objection or suggestion? [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | It's a little redundant but this design make sure that all Dolphin users will see these problems, even people who jumps directly in the game page through the Wiki context menu present in Dolphin itself. Furthermore, [[The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask]] is already using the global template and I'm going to remove that "test issue" from the VC global templates soon, I need it for testing. Before committing this to the other platforms, I'll (try to) fix all spacing problems and make the template source more readable, but I need feedback here, any objection or suggestion? [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
:Forgot something, the placement: Global Problems should be before or after the Problems section? [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | :Forgot something, the placement: Global Problems should be before or after the Problems section? [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
::Before. The Problems section for most VC games will be blank, and 9 times out of 10 it will just be the Global Problems. Furthermore, it mirrors how it is on the game lists. Oh, and don't forget the helpers for new users. - [[User: | ::Before. The Problems section for most VC games will be blank, and 9 times out of 10 it will just be the Global Problems. Furthermore, it mirrors how it is on the game lists. Oh, and don't forget the helpers for new users. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 06:32, 10 August 2013 (CEST) | ||
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So mbc07, finished? It seems like you got it; it's fully functional and very easy to use. As far as I'm concerned, add documentation and you're done. Anything else you want to do with it before we put it everywhere? - [[User: | So mbc07, finished? It seems like you got it; it's fully functional and very easy to use. As far as I'm concerned, add documentation and you're done. Anything else you want to do with it before we put it everywhere? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 10:18, 12 August 2013 (CEST) | ||
: Yep, finished... I'll add the search-and-replace strings in [[Project:To Do]], so you could ask delroth for the script. If the automation fails, then tell us and we go in the manual way. [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | : Yep, finished... I'll add the search-and-replace strings in [[Project:To Do]], so you could ask delroth for the script. If the automation fails, then tell us and we go in the manual way. [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
:: Done. A very small amount of pages already had GlobalProblems inclusions - these weren't modified, even when they were obsolete. I unfortunately don't have a list. [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 21:33, 12 August 2013 (CEST) | :: Done. A very small amount of pages already had GlobalProblems inclusions - these weren't modified, even when they were obsolete. I unfortunately don't have a list. [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 21:33, 12 August 2013 (CEST) | ||
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Splitting this to get more attention. Well, I started coding the global problems template for VC games, and before I continue the work, I need to get opinion of you guys regarding how we'll handle the universal problems in every VC game page. First off, I fell this necessary because some users just jump directly in the game page through context menu option in the emulator or by the forum thread, so, we need to add the universal problems in the game page too. Regardless of what design we choose, we'll need to add a template call in every VC game page (yes, it's a booooring job that has to be done -- at least there aren't to much VC game pages created). But before I continue working in the template, we need to decide how we'll show this, and I have two suggestions: first, calling the template without an argument (eg. in a game page) create a section named "Global Problems", and parse the problems for that system. The second one, is adding the template call after the specific problems, this way, the global problems will just appear together with the specific problems. Do you guys have any other suggestion? What you prefer? I vote for the first one... [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | Splitting this to get more attention. Well, I started coding the global problems template for VC games, and before I continue the work, I need to get opinion of you guys regarding how we'll handle the universal problems in every VC game page. First off, I fell this necessary because some users just jump directly in the game page through context menu option in the emulator or by the forum thread, so, we need to add the universal problems in the game page too. Regardless of what design we choose, we'll need to add a template call in every VC game page (yes, it's a booooring job that has to be done -- at least there aren't to much VC game pages created). But before I continue working in the template, we need to decide how we'll show this, and I have two suggestions: first, calling the template without an argument (eg. in a game page) create a section named "Global Problems", and parse the problems for that system. The second one, is adding the template call after the specific problems, this way, the global problems will just appear together with the specific problems. Do you guys have any other suggestion? What you prefer? I vote for the first one... [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
<s>I could ask delroth</s> I asked delroth about making a script for putting the global problems template into every VC game page. As soon as we get thing settled on how it should be used, he should be able to commit the global problems to every VC game page. To that end we might want to double check as make sure all the virtual console games are in [[:Category:Virtual Console]], as that's what I was going to suggest he use (unless you guys have a better idea?). As for the options, I vote for the first one. A "global problems" section in each game would be better; having the global problems inline could cause some confusion. - [[User: | <s>I could ask delroth</s> I asked delroth about making a script for putting the global problems template into every VC game page. As soon as we get thing settled on how it should be used, he should be able to commit the global problems to every VC game page. To that end we might want to double check as make sure all the virtual console games are in [[:Category:Virtual Console]], as that's what I was going to suggest he use (unless you guys have a better idea?). As for the options, I vote for the first one. A "global problems" section in each game would be better; having the global problems inline could cause some confusion. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 09:35, 3 August 2013 (CEST) | ||
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Ok, if we're going to use the first suggestion, we'll need to add the following in every VC game page: | Ok, if we're going to use the first suggestion, we'll need to add the following in every VC game page: | ||
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You're right. Fortunately, every VC game has two categories: [[:Category:Virtual Console games]] and the system category, say, [[:Category:SNES games]]. We can use that to pick between the platforms. And I agree with you: putting global problems before the standard problems is probably the best option. Well, it seems like we agree, I don't know where Kolano is though... Well, I'd prefer to wait until Kolano chimes in. Or at least just wait a couple days then go with it. | You're right. Fortunately, every VC game has two categories: [[:Category:Virtual Console games]] and the system category, say, [[:Category:SNES games]]. We can use that to pick between the platforms. And I agree with you: putting global problems before the standard problems is probably the best option. Well, it seems like we agree, I don't know where Kolano is though... Well, I'd prefer to wait until Kolano chimes in. Or at least just wait a couple days then go with it. | ||
Well, once we get everything settled, I can send delroth an email about the script. Or perhaps it's better if you do it mbc07? You are more involved with the template. - [[User: | Well, once we get everything settled, I can send delroth an email about the script. Or perhaps it's better if you do it mbc07? You are more involved with the template. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 04:36, 4 August 2013 (CEST) | ||
:Well, I'll just wait a bit more to get Kolano opinion and then finish the template. After that we see how we'll handle the migration... [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | :Well, I'll just wait a bit more to get Kolano opinion and then finish the template. After that we see how we'll handle the migration... [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
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Alright, everyone seems fine with it, so I'm going to send the email to delroth. I'll recommend he use the system categories to know what to put where, and tell him to place it above the problems section. If anyone wants to do it manually they can just do it first. - [[User: | Alright, everyone seems fine with it, so I'm going to send the email to delroth. I'll recommend he use the system categories to know what to put where, and tell him to place it above the problems section. If anyone wants to do it manually they can just do it first. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 06:13, 6 August 2013 (CEST) | ||
=== Purge CPU Arch Indicators === | === Purge CPU Arch Indicators === | ||
I have been thinking of purging out the OS bit depth indicators (i.e. x86, x64, x86_64). They made sense back when x86 and x64 versions of Dolphin were offered, but now that we only support x64 I'm not clear that they do. Raising here to double check if there are any concerns before I more forward with the big search-n-replace needed to purge them. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 04:24, 10 October 2015 (CEST) | I have been thinking of purging out the OS bit depth indicators (i.e. x86, x64, x86_64). They made sense back when x86 and x64 versions of Dolphin were offered, but now that we only support x64 I'm not clear that they do. Raising here to double check if there are any concerns before I more forward with the big search-n-replace needed to purge them. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 04:24, 10 October 2015 (CEST) | ||
: I'm fine with this. We don't support 320bit on any platform now. - [[User: | : I'm fine with this. We don't support 320bit on any platform now. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 09:50, 10 October 2015 (CEST) | ||
=== Global Problems Template === | === Global Problems Template === | ||
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=== Performance Addition to Game Wiki Pages === | === Performance Addition to Game Wiki Pages === | ||
As Kolano said in his edit, performance is not the goal of this wiki. The default settings are already the best balance of speed and compatibility, the wiki exists to help people know what those settings are and what they mean and to catalog problems. Users can break things on their own juuuust fine! While I'm at it, why did you place notes throughout the page? You aren't intending to have that in the live version are you? - [[User: | As Kolano said in his edit, performance is not the goal of this wiki. The default settings are already the best balance of speed and compatibility, the wiki exists to help people know what those settings are and what they mean and to catalog problems. Users can break things on their own juuuust fine! While I'm at it, why did you place notes throughout the page? You aren't intending to have that in the live version are you? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 17:11, 26 April 2015 (CEST) | ||
:It's a WIP, or RIP really (revision in progress), that I will propose along with the other proposal I am working on. The goal is to make pages easier to read and to appeal to both audiences; people who want performance over emulation accuracy '''and''' people who want emulation accuracy over performance. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 22:14, 26 April 2015 (CEST) | :It's a WIP, or RIP really (revision in progress), that I will propose along with the other proposal I am working on. The goal is to make pages easier to read and to appeal to both audiences; people who want performance over emulation accuracy '''and''' people who want emulation accuracy over performance. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 22:14, 26 April 2015 (CEST) | ||
::I think you are misunderstanding the approach the wiki is taking. Our job is not to balance speed and performance, but to inform the user of accuracy issues and problems and let them make their own decision on how to balance their own needs. This is the only way the wiki can remain objective - "balance" would vary depending on the user's system, the game and problem at hand, and their own personal opinion. If you make a post saying that a certain setup is the best balance, and I disagree with that, who's right? No one is! It's impossible to resolve, since it's all subjective. But if it's accuracy related, we can test it, confirm it, and apply it. By sticking to accuracy it gives us a reasonable way to make a reliable wiki, and the users can be informed about what a problem is, how to avoid it, and the costs it will take; allowing them to make their own decisions on whether those costs are worth it to them. That said, we do try to inform them of the costs, especially if it is something nasty like Single Core. - [[User: | ::I think you are misunderstanding the approach the wiki is taking. Our job is not to balance speed and performance, but to inform the user of accuracy issues and problems and let them make their own decision on how to balance their own needs. This is the only way the wiki can remain objective - "balance" would vary depending on the user's system, the game and problem at hand, and their own personal opinion. If you make a post saying that a certain setup is the best balance, and I disagree with that, who's right? No one is! It's impossible to resolve, since it's all subjective. But if it's accuracy related, we can test it, confirm it, and apply it. By sticking to accuracy it gives us a reasonable way to make a reliable wiki, and the users can be informed about what a problem is, how to avoid it, and the costs it will take; allowing them to make their own decisions on whether those costs are worth it to them. That said, we do try to inform them of the costs, especially if it is something nasty like Single Core. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 08:36, 29 April 2015 (CEST) | ||
::::I think you misunderstanding what I am proposing. I am not proposing accuracy loss. I am proposing an additional section that documents performance tweaks as well as preserve the section for accuracy. To my understanding, the current way pushes accuracy as the forefront while performance is an afterthought. The performance tweaks are there, yes, but are "camouflaged". Somewhat harder to see. Look at [[Interactive Multi Game Demo Disc 2001-10/sandbox|the sandbox]] again. Maybe you will understand what I am suggesting. Most people will want to play their games with minimal distractions, not see how accurately Dolphin can emulate their favorite games. Some do want an accurate emulator. I'm proposing satisfying both parties, not just one or the other. I am not suggesting a middle ground either. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 09:28, 29 April 2015 (CEST) | ::::I think you misunderstanding what I am proposing. I am not proposing accuracy loss. I am proposing an additional section that documents performance tweaks as well as preserve the section for accuracy. To my understanding, the current way pushes accuracy as the forefront while performance is an afterthought. The performance tweaks are there, yes, but are "camouflaged". Somewhat harder to see. Look at [[Interactive Multi Game Demo Disc 2001-10/sandbox|the sandbox]] again. Maybe you will understand what I am suggesting. Most people will want to play their games with minimal distractions, not see how accurately Dolphin can emulate their favorite games. Some do want an accurate emulator. I'm proposing satisfying both parties, not just one or the other. I am not suggesting a middle ground either. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 09:28, 29 April 2015 (CEST) | ||
::I'm somewhat supportive of adding a performance tweaks section, but there would need to be some fairly strict guidelines on the sorts of things we'd capture there. For instance it may be nice to work out games that don't use EFB, and can safely disable EFB effects (something it might be nice to be able to effect via the game ini's actually). Having some coverage of issues raised by various performance tweaks might also help avoid those getting mixed in as reported bugs. There's also the subject of visual tweaks, where we might cover things like compatibility of AA / Antis-tropic / Force Filter settings (another thing it might be nice to be able to disable via ini) and/or provide a spot for HD texture pack details. | ::I'm somewhat supportive of adding a performance tweaks section, but there would need to be some fairly strict guidelines on the sorts of things we'd capture there. For instance it may be nice to work out games that don't use EFB, and can safely disable EFB effects (something it might be nice to be able to effect via the game ini's actually). Having some coverage of issues raised by various performance tweaks might also help avoid those getting mixed in as reported bugs. There's also the subject of visual tweaks, where we might cover things like compatibility of AA / Antis-tropic / Force Filter settings (another thing it might be nice to be able to disable via ini) and/or provide a spot for HD texture pack details. | ||
::Per concerns already raised, we should take this slowly though to try to avoid it becoming messy. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 09:48, 29 April 2015 (CEST) | ::Per concerns already raised, we should take this slowly though to try to avoid it becoming messy. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 09:48, 29 April 2015 (CEST) | ||
::Honestly I don't really see much point... Games that need DSP LLE are marked as such, those that need EFB to Ram are marked as such, so saying "this game is fine with EFB to Texture" is just redundant. This is why we removed config entries that recommended EFB to Texture and created the best accuracy rule in the first place. Well, that and people filling out a page with their favorite settings irregardless of how it broke things! The accuracy rule gave us a standard of objectivity that kept favorite settings and things that can be reproduced away from the wiki, and helped it be as useful as it is. Games that are ok without EFB is a valid point... if users could disable efb copies anymore! Most of the dumb settings like that have been removed. :P And if antialiasing or AF or something breaks something or is needed, it's already mentioned (see skyward sword). "Camouflaged" it may be, but all of the information is there, so honestly I think all of this is covered already by existing conventions. If a game needs something that's intensive, it's mentioned, and if it doesn't, use what runs fastest (which is already the default...) - [[User: | ::Honestly I don't really see much point... Games that need DSP LLE are marked as such, those that need EFB to Ram are marked as such, so saying "this game is fine with EFB to Texture" is just redundant. This is why we removed config entries that recommended EFB to Texture and created the best accuracy rule in the first place. Well, that and people filling out a page with their favorite settings irregardless of how it broke things! The accuracy rule gave us a standard of objectivity that kept favorite settings and things that can be reproduced away from the wiki, and helped it be as useful as it is. Games that are ok without EFB is a valid point... if users could disable efb copies anymore! Most of the dumb settings like that have been removed. :P And if antialiasing or AF or something breaks something or is needed, it's already mentioned (see skyward sword). "Camouflaged" it may be, but all of the information is there, so honestly I think all of this is covered already by existing conventions. If a game needs something that's intensive, it's mentioned, and if it doesn't, use what runs fastest (which is already the default...) - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 02:51, 3 May 2015 (CEST) | ||
:::On a final note, any performance additions to this wiki should follow the objectivity rule: they would have to measurable and reproducible. Part of my resistance to this idea is just how badly things were with performance in the past, because people would put things up saying it's "faster" and then we'd kill it for being dumb and they'd put it back '''insisting''' it is better and must be on the page! We were only able to clean that up by implementing the accuracy and objectivity concepts. So I'm definitely scared by all of this performance talk, as it is trying to bring back some of the things that let crap enter this wiki. While I am not very open to it, at the very least it would need to follow objectivity standards, and have a plan prepared ahead of time for dealing with "but these are the best settings!" people. ...and there is also the fact that we can't test every game and every post that comes through, and this performance thing could let users sneak more weird settings in since it's harder to understand performance impacts since it varies so much with hardware. Ok yea I'm still against it. But my point is, objectivity rules and preparations against ignorant users must be involved in this! - [[User: | :::On a final note, any performance additions to this wiki should follow the objectivity rule: they would have to measurable and reproducible. Part of my resistance to this idea is just how badly things were with performance in the past, because people would put things up saying it's "faster" and then we'd kill it for being dumb and they'd put it back '''insisting''' it is better and must be on the page! We were only able to clean that up by implementing the accuracy and objectivity concepts. So I'm definitely scared by all of this performance talk, as it is trying to bring back some of the things that let crap enter this wiki. While I am not very open to it, at the very least it would need to follow objectivity standards, and have a plan prepared ahead of time for dealing with "but these are the best settings!" people. ...and there is also the fact that we can't test every game and every post that comes through, and this performance thing could let users sneak more weird settings in since it's harder to understand performance impacts since it varies so much with hardware. Ok yea I'm still against it. But my point is, objectivity rules and preparations against ignorant users must be involved in this! - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 02:58, 3 May 2015 (CEST) | ||
::::One thing I noticed that Dolphin doesn't do is have a reset button or something to restore default settings. Sure, there is dialog for the recommended setting if the user is unsure of the default setting, but no convenient button. If a button were implemented, you could use that to further enforce the importance of first testing with default settings vs. them deviating from the default settings where the game had bugs running under Dolphin. That way real bugs are filtered away from false bugs induced by the user. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 04:40, 10 May 2015 (CEST) | ::::One thing I noticed that Dolphin doesn't do is have a reset button or something to restore default settings. Sure, there is dialog for the recommended setting if the user is unsure of the default setting, but no convenient button. If a button were implemented, you could use that to further enforce the importance of first testing with default settings vs. them deviating from the default settings where the game had bugs running under Dolphin. That way real bugs are filtered away from false bugs induced by the user. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 04:40, 10 May 2015 (CEST) | ||
:::::In general and in my opinion, Dolphin and its support pages aren't the most user-friendly I have used. It seems to be geared towards enthusiasts. I can use it and understand what I need to know to make the emulator work, but I don't know if the average user will understand like we do. That is the root concern I have and I am trying to address it one problem at a time and see what you guys think of the solution I came up with. I have a lot of practice with this in general. I hope to be of good help by providing valuable feedback! --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 04:40, 10 May 2015 (CEST) | :::::In general and in my opinion, Dolphin and its support pages aren't the most user-friendly I have used. It seems to be geared towards enthusiasts. I can use it and understand what I need to know to make the emulator work, but I don't know if the average user will understand like we do. That is the root concern I have and I am trying to address it one problem at a time and see what you guys think of the solution I came up with. I have a lot of practice with this in general. I hope to be of good help by providing valuable feedback! --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 04:40, 10 May 2015 (CEST) | ||
::::::Well... the goal of the wiki is to educate people, and we tell them how to do things, how to fix problems, etc etc while letting them make their own decisions on techniques and performance. And the data is kept objective so it can be repeatable and sustainable long term. Not every user is going to want to know why this or that does this and why it fixes this bug, but the emulator has many support mechanisms to help those users already. The wiki serves as the last part of a chain, not the first. GameINIs catch most things, the forums/irc/reddit and other support catches the rest, and then we inform the enthusiasts that provide support as well as users who want to learn and grow on their own. There are many layers of support, and we are the most technical. '''And that's ok!''' It is what wikis are best at: education. The wiki serves as a long term database of technical information regarding the impact of features and changes in the emulator and ways to work around various issues, something that none of the other support mechanisms can do effectively. I'm totally open to improving our ability to educate, but you need to understand our resistance: what we have works, and it was the first (if not the only, I don't know of any others) emulator wiki to achieve this kind of reliability. The Dolphin wiki has succeeded because of the users willing to learn and share that knowledge, but also because of the curators who have worked hard to develop rules and structures that foster the usefulness of the wiki and encourage users to contribute. The decisions we admins have made over the years, such as the objectivity/reproducibility standard, were made to create something that is reliable and informative to end users but sustainable to wiki editors and admins. It is a very careful balancing act, but it's working! So there is going to be some resistance when a single new person comes out of the blue and proposes sweeping changes. While that may be a little frustrating for you, please understand that we're trying to listen and understand the new ideas so we can incorporate things that will improve the wiki, but also protect the systems that have worked so that the changes improve the wiki and not make it worse. To that end, you have repeatedly said that you have worked in other sites that work better, but you have never shared them. If you could show them, it would really help us understand where you are coming from, and help us pick up good ideas from them on our own. Would you mind sharing those references? - [[User: | ::::::Well... the goal of the wiki is to educate people, and we tell them how to do things, how to fix problems, etc etc while letting them make their own decisions on techniques and performance. And the data is kept objective so it can be repeatable and sustainable long term. Not every user is going to want to know why this or that does this and why it fixes this bug, but the emulator has many support mechanisms to help those users already. The wiki serves as the last part of a chain, not the first. GameINIs catch most things, the forums/irc/reddit and other support catches the rest, and then we inform the enthusiasts that provide support as well as users who want to learn and grow on their own. There are many layers of support, and we are the most technical. '''And that's ok!''' It is what wikis are best at: education. The wiki serves as a long term database of technical information regarding the impact of features and changes in the emulator and ways to work around various issues, something that none of the other support mechanisms can do effectively. I'm totally open to improving our ability to educate, but you need to understand our resistance: what we have works, and it was the first (if not the only, I don't know of any others) emulator wiki to achieve this kind of reliability. The Dolphin wiki has succeeded because of the users willing to learn and share that knowledge, but also because of the curators who have worked hard to develop rules and structures that foster the usefulness of the wiki and encourage users to contribute. The decisions we admins have made over the years, such as the objectivity/reproducibility standard, were made to create something that is reliable and informative to end users but sustainable to wiki editors and admins. It is a very careful balancing act, but it's working! So there is going to be some resistance when a single new person comes out of the blue and proposes sweeping changes. While that may be a little frustrating for you, please understand that we're trying to listen and understand the new ideas so we can incorporate things that will improve the wiki, but also protect the systems that have worked so that the changes improve the wiki and not make it worse. To that end, you have repeatedly said that you have worked in other sites that work better, but you have never shared them. If you could show them, it would really help us understand where you are coming from, and help us pick up good ideas from them on our own. Would you mind sharing those references? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 09:51, 10 May 2015 (CEST) | ||
:::::::I never mentioned I contributed to other websites the way you are implying. I have contributed, yes, but never pushed dramatic changes or ideas to how something could work better for a website. Usually it's already good as-is. The Dolphin website is the first time I felt I could do it more confidently. As for making things more user-friendly, they are mostly related to designing interfaces for sample programs I have made that I never made the source code public. I do have them, but I haven't really bothered to go through my various projects (big or small). I don't have a website to showcase them. I find designing a website from scratch cumbersome. If I have predesigned assets to work with and an easy drop-in system, like using Visual C# 2008/2010, then I can design something rather easily. It's like building with LEGOS vs. drawing a picture for me. LEGOS come easier for me. I have the pieces here on this website, just not the ability to create them. I just find the pieces are not being used most effectively. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 10:30, 10 May 2015 (CEST) | :::::::I never mentioned I contributed to other websites the way you are implying. I have contributed, yes, but never pushed dramatic changes or ideas to how something could work better for a website. Usually it's already good as-is. The Dolphin website is the first time I felt I could do it more confidently. As for making things more user-friendly, they are mostly related to designing interfaces for sample programs I have made that I never made the source code public. I do have them, but I haven't really bothered to go through my various projects (big or small). I don't have a website to showcase them. I find designing a website from scratch cumbersome. If I have predesigned assets to work with and an easy drop-in system, like using Visual C# 2008/2010, then I can design something rather easily. It's like building with LEGOS vs. drawing a picture for me. LEGOS come easier for me. I have the pieces here on this website, just not the ability to create them. I just find the pieces are not being used most effectively. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 10:30, 10 May 2015 (CEST) | ||
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Here is my proposal - a dedicated page for 3D Support. The page would have instructions for set up (all platforms), as well as a listing of game test results and any texture hacking/cheating required and problems encountered. While I kind of wish we had a method for letting the test results just go into the source game and then collect all testing entries with a 3D field in them into this single page but uh, I don't know how to do that. Regardless, the point of having it all together is that people will actually be able to FIND it, and we don't have to worry about random outdated 3D stuff being spread all over the place. Win win. | Here is my proposal - a dedicated page for 3D Support. The page would have instructions for set up (all platforms), as well as a listing of game test results and any texture hacking/cheating required and problems encountered. While I kind of wish we had a method for letting the test results just go into the source game and then collect all testing entries with a 3D field in them into this single page but uh, I don't know how to do that. Regardless, the point of having it all together is that people will actually be able to FIND it, and we don't have to worry about random outdated 3D stuff being spread all over the place. Win win. | ||
What do you guys think? - [[User: | What do you guys think? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 08:20, 3 August 2014 (CEST) | ||
: I liked the concept, but I'm unsure on how to grab the testing entries... Not sure if there's a way to share testing entries between pages without needing major rewrites in testing template code. - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | : I liked the concept, but I'm unsure on how to grab the testing entries... Not sure if there's a way to share testing entries between pages without needing major rewrites in testing template code. - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) | ||
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: I guess my opinion here is that, if we had some buy-in enabling the sorts of mass edits needed to create/embed 3d config/issues templates across pages I'd prefer that, but outside of that a centralized page is an OK way of handling it otherwise. (p.s. looking through the rest of the discussion here we have some cleanup to do.) [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 08:16, 5 August 2014 (CEST) | : I guess my opinion here is that, if we had some buy-in enabling the sorts of mass edits needed to create/embed 3d config/issues templates across pages I'd prefer that, but outside of that a centralized page is an OK way of handling it otherwise. (p.s. looking through the rest of the discussion here we have some cleanup to do.) [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 08:16, 5 August 2014 (CEST) | ||
::Yea that's pretty much the idea. Having it all in one place. The idea of having test entries and pulling them here too was just a side idea. The main thing is to have them in ONE PLACE. I'll set up a page and start experimenting with it. JMC47 has collected a ton of information and I'll be working with him on it. If you guys have a better idea than what I'm doing as I'm doing it please jump onto the talk page and point it out. I'm kind of winging it. - [[User: | ::Yea that's pretty much the idea. Having it all in one place. The idea of having test entries and pulling them here too was just a side idea. The main thing is to have them in ONE PLACE. I'll set up a page and start experimenting with it. JMC47 has collected a ton of information and I'll be working with him on it. If you guys have a better idea than what I'm doing as I'm doing it please jump onto the talk page and point it out. I'm kind of winging it. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 09:59, 7 August 2014 (CEST) | ||
This is still being implemented at [[Stereoscopic_3D_Support_and_Compatibility/Sandbox]]. Someone needs to clean such and get it out of the sandbox.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 08:24, 6 October 2015 (CEST) | This is still being implemented at [[Stereoscopic_3D_Support_and_Compatibility/Sandbox]]. Someone needs to clean such and get it out of the sandbox.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 08:24, 6 October 2015 (CEST) | ||
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Actually, we don't just list non-default settings. I've been making sure problems are added with a "fixed by X setting. This setting is enabled in the gameini, but if you open the graphics configuration window the problem may appear." And the configuration area usually has all of the settings, defaults or no. I think that's a good way to handle this. It documents it, without being so nuts as to have a "gameini template". I agree that GameINI documentation is important, as kosta doesn't seem very inclined to share the magic of what does what, but I don't think we need a massive overhaul - most of the information is already on the wiki in some form, and it's actually ''explained'' here. And since any pulling of gameinis would be entirely one way, and there is ZERO documentation in the gameinis, I don't recommend any tie in to the gameini database. I think the most important thing is for us to just adopt the above scheme as the official convention. and let time and constant work fill in the blanks. - [[User: | Actually, we don't just list non-default settings. I've been making sure problems are added with a "fixed by X setting. This setting is enabled in the gameini, but if you open the graphics configuration window the problem may appear." And the configuration area usually has all of the settings, defaults or no. I think that's a good way to handle this. It documents it, without being so nuts as to have a "gameini template". I agree that GameINI documentation is important, as kosta doesn't seem very inclined to share the magic of what does what, but I don't think we need a massive overhaul - most of the information is already on the wiki in some form, and it's actually ''explained'' here. And since any pulling of gameinis would be entirely one way, and there is ZERO documentation in the gameinis, I don't recommend any tie in to the gameini database. I think the most important thing is for us to just adopt the above scheme as the official convention. and let time and constant work fill in the blanks. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 08:11, 7 December 2014 (CET) | ||
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Oh, and I would appreciate it if you reverted those cleanups. You jumped the gun a little bit there to talk about this issue after killing a bunch of stuff. | Oh, and I would appreciate it if you reverted those cleanups. You jumped the gun a little bit there to talk about this issue after killing a bunch of stuff. | ||
- [[User: | - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 12:11, 7 December 2014 (CET)| | ||
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This is ongoing at [[GameINI Settings/Sandbox]] and needs to be brought to completion. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 08:25, 6 October 2015 (CEST) | This is ongoing at [[GameINI Settings/Sandbox]] and needs to be brought to completion. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 08:25, 6 October 2015 (CEST) | ||
:Oh yea, I never did finish that... In part because Link to the past will probably never touch it. Maybe if it's an official guide (on the main page) we can tempt him to? Hmm... It might be worth sending him a PM and asking. - [[User: | :Oh yea, I never did finish that... In part because Link to the past will probably never touch it. Maybe if it's an official guide (on the main page) we can tempt him to? Hmm... It might be worth sending him a PM and asking. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 12:34, 7 October 2015 (CEST) | ||
== 2016 == | == 2016 == | ||
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* You can also use the <tt>type=</tt> parameter to better reflect the page type (e.g. channel pages). This parameter is optional and works exactly like the <tt>type=</tt> parameter from {{tl|Config}}. | * You can also use the <tt>type=</tt> parameter to better reflect the page type (e.g. channel pages). This parameter is optional and works exactly like the <tt>type=</tt> parameter from {{tl|Config}}. | ||
And well, there's a single disadvantage, but given the benefits I think it's perfectly doable: the "[edit]" button disappears from the individual entries, but you can still find it under the main "Problems" section. So, given the benefits, I almost started implementing this everywhere, but it's a somewhat big change, so I would like to hear any thoughts you guys might have before starting (especially from [[User:Kolano]] and [[User: | And well, there's a single disadvantage, but given the benefits I think it's perfectly doable: the "[edit]" button disappears from the individual entries, but you can still find it under the main "Problems" section. So, given the benefits, I almost started implementing this everywhere, but it's a somewhat big change, so I would like to hear any thoughts you guys might have before starting (especially from [[User:Kolano]] and [[User:MayImilae]]). - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) 07:56, 19 November 2016 (CET) | ||
: The missing edit buttons are deficit. That will likely require looking at each specific Problem edit to tell what was revised (i.e. since section titles won't appear in the Recent Changes list). I'm supportive of this though, since I'd like to see the Active Problems functionality restored. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 20:09, 19 November 2016 (CET) | : The missing edit buttons are deficit. That will likely require looking at each specific Problem edit to tell what was revised (i.e. since section titles won't appear in the Recent Changes list). I'm supportive of this though, since I'd like to see the Active Problems functionality restored. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 20:09, 19 November 2016 (CET) | ||
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5.0 Release time is basically... right now! Me and JMC are busy getting everything ready on the blog side. Someone else will need to get things ready here. The current goal is Sunday, and all signs are pointing to us making it, so we don't have a lot of time! - [[User: | 5.0 Release time is basically... right now! Me and JMC are busy getting everything ready on the blog side. Someone else will need to get things ready here. The current goal is Sunday, and all signs are pointing to us making it, so we don't have a lot of time! - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 22:07, 14 June 2016 (CEST) | ||
:Oh, one minor note. About issues that can still happen when opening the graphics configuration menu - I'd really like for them to stay. Right now some are marked as fixed and others are not, so if we purge all fixed issues right now it will be a mess... What do you guys think we should do we these? Precedent is all over the place right now! - [[User: | :Oh, one minor note. About issues that can still happen when opening the graphics configuration menu - I'd really like for them to stay. Right now some are marked as fixed and others are not, so if we purge all fixed issues right now it will be a mess... What do you guys think we should do we these? Precedent is all over the place right now! - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 22:10, 14 June 2016 (CEST) | ||
:So, what's the plan? Wait until 5.0 is out officially to start purging <s>crossed</s> entries? Or start right now? I have some free time during this week, so I can help with the purging... - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) 05:05, 15 June 2016 (CEST) | :So, what's the plan? Wait until 5.0 is out officially to start purging <s>crossed</s> entries? Or start right now? I have some free time during this week, so I can help with the purging... - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) 05:05, 15 June 2016 (CEST) | ||
::Weren't we going to automate it? - [[User: | ::Weren't we going to automate it? - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 07:11, 15 June 2016 (CEST) | ||
:::Since we isolated crossed entries on a separate category, I'm pretty sure we can do that with some RegExp trickery. But then, some issues that can still happen when opening the graphics configuration window would be purged too (the ones that were crossed). If we're really going to automate it, we should go through the pages manually to check that case you noted before starting... - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) 08:57, 15 June 2016 (CEST) | :::Since we isolated crossed entries on a separate category, I'm pretty sure we can do that with some RegExp trickery. But then, some issues that can still happen when opening the graphics configuration window would be purged too (the ones that were crossed). If we're really going to automate it, we should go through the pages manually to check that case you noted before starting... - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) 08:57, 15 June 2016 (CEST) | ||
::::Yea, probably best to do it manually so we can check and make sure everything is correct... Or should I say, you should do it, I'm too busy! :P - [[User: | ::::Yea, probably best to do it manually so we can check and make sure everything is correct... Or should I say, you should do it, I'm too busy! :P - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 04:58, 16 June 2016 (CEST) | ||
: I have a big deliverable on a work project on the 20th, so I won't have much time here. Regarding the graphics options issue, I'd kind of prefer to just purge them and then come back with a generic "Opening Config Can Cause Issues" statement on every game that has an INI file. The current coverage seems pretty scattershot. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 05:13, 16 June 2016 (CEST) | : I have a big deliverable on a work project on the 20th, so I won't have much time here. Regarding the graphics options issue, I'd kind of prefer to just purge them and then come back with a generic "Opening Config Can Cause Issues" statement on every game that has an INI file. The current coverage seems pretty scattershot. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 05:13, 16 June 2016 (CEST) | ||
::Wouldn't that be hundreds of games though? By having it in the problem it is much more specific, too. - [[User: | ::Wouldn't that be hundreds of games though? By having it in the problem it is much more specific, too. - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 08:44, 16 June 2016 (CEST) | ||
::: Well, since we're running out of time, I think I can isolate pages from the [[:Category:Pages with fixed problems]] that have references to graphics settings with some special searches. After filtering out those pages we could proceed with the mass purge and decide later what to do on the remaining pages with issues that can still happen when opening the graphics configuration menu. I personally think that moving those problems to Emulation Information may be a good deal (similar to the Bounding Box entries on Paper Mario games -- they are already listed on Emulation Information). What do you think? - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) 02:10, 17 June 2016 (CEST) | ::: Well, since we're running out of time, I think I can isolate pages from the [[:Category:Pages with fixed problems]] that have references to graphics settings with some special searches. After filtering out those pages we could proceed with the mass purge and decide later what to do on the remaining pages with issues that can still happen when opening the graphics configuration menu. I personally think that moving those problems to Emulation Information may be a good deal (similar to the Bounding Box entries on Paper Mario games -- they are already listed on Emulation Information). What do you think? - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) 02:10, 17 June 2016 (CEST) | ||
:::: That works for me! Thank you for doing it! Sorry I can't be of much help, I'm exhausted from all of this 5.0 prep >_< - [[User: | :::: That works for me! Thank you for doing it! Sorry I can't be of much help, I'm exhausted from all of this 5.0 prep >_< - [[User:MayImilae|MayImilae]] ([[User talk:MayImilae|talk]]) 03:08, 17 June 2016 (CEST) | ||
A quick update: by purging the global problems templates, the number of pages with fixed issues dropped to 275 from the previous 700+ (YAY!). Before filtering the crossed issues related to opening graphics settings, I tried to use RegExp to automatically purge the remaining entries (just a test) and... Database Error. Apparently the RegExp sentence is somehow too complex and we can't proceed. I'll contact Parlane to see if he can do something about that, in the worst scenario I'll start purging manually (fortunately the number of pages with <s>crossed</s> entries isn't that big) - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) 07:01, 18 June 2016 (CEST) | A quick update: by purging the global problems templates, the number of pages with fixed issues dropped to 275 from the previous 700+ (YAY!). Before filtering the crossed issues related to opening graphics settings, I tried to use RegExp to automatically purge the remaining entries (just a test) and... Database Error. Apparently the RegExp sentence is somehow too complex and we can't proceed. I'll contact Parlane to see if he can do something about that, in the worst scenario I'll start purging manually (fortunately the number of pages with <s>crossed</s> entries isn't that big) - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) 07:01, 18 June 2016 (CEST) | ||