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Template talk:Ratings: Difference between revisions
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→Perfect vs Excellent
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*Games maliciously rated as perfect by unscrupulous wiki editors | *Games maliciously rated as perfect by unscrupulous wiki editors | ||
...but I'd hope those aren't common occurrences. It also doesn't seem like it could be that widespread a problem, as there are only 295 titles, out of multiple thousands, that receive a perfect rating. If some of those have issues we should investigate them, but I'm not clear why we should assume that to be the case (and if we can assume such, we should drop them all to "Playable" now). [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 22:29, 5 December 2015 (CET) | ...but I'd hope those aren't common occurrences. It also doesn't seem like it could be that widespread a problem, as there are only 295 titles, out of multiple thousands, that receive a perfect rating. If some of those have issues we should investigate them, but I'm not clear why we should assume that to be the case (and if we can assume such, we should drop them all to "Playable" now). [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 22:29, 5 December 2015 (CET) | ||
:Had some further discussion with Major via IRC last night. She was supposed to update here but that apparently didn't happen. A rundown (with some minor edits to shorten things) appears below. | |||
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word;">(12:04:53 AM) MaJoR1: perfect doesn't mean "no issues after subtracting issues we do not declare are issues" it means "no issues period" | |||
(12:05:55 AM) MaJoR1: who are you to declare that an issue is not relevant enough to say something is or isn't perfect? | |||
(12:06:39 AM) MaJoR1: by moving to excellent, to me, it means owning up to that. Yes we're making a value judgement, and we always have, so instead of pretending it's perfection, let's call it how we are using it, and accept that we are making judgements | |||
... | |||
(12:08:36 AM) MaJoR1: to me, you appear to be hiding behind the same beauracratic structures of lies that we have always used to justify what someone decided to call the ratings back in 2008, while avoiding the basic reality of it all | |||
(12:08:40 AM) MaJoR1: it's frustrating… | |||
(12:09:38 AM) Kolano: My concern is that to a random wiki editor "Excellent" is likely to mean just that, "good" but not "perfect". So by not using the term "Perfect" we are likely to increase the likelihood of bogus 5 star ratings. We already have to roll things back frequently as is, but we at least have a easily explained rule for doing so. | |||
(12:10:41 AM) MaJoR1: hmm, that is a legitimate concern… | |||
(12:12:46 AM) MaJoR1: we'd need to refine what we call the rating in the explanation text | |||
(12:13:40 AM) MaJoR1: it could encourage more incorrect 5 stars, but, honestly that is already an issue, if we set it up correctly, it shouldn't make it worse | |||
(12:14:13 AM) MaJoR1: then again it might, and then again it might reduce it, we have no way to know that :/ | |||
(12:14:20 AM) Kolano: I think that's a solution I'm more comfortable with. Also, again, I'm perfectly happy not rate things as perfect if there are actual issues with them. But we need to know what those issues are. Per my response above to shader compilation, there may be possible resolutions in time, There are likely to always be subtle problems too, but at some point I do think it's possible to draw a line. | |||
(12:15:52 AM) MaJoR1: I'm still not happy with the word perfect… but if you can make the text clear that it is not "Not issues at all" and that subjective estimates are involved "relevant issues", I think I could be ok with that | |||
(12:16:34 AM) MaJoR1: I still think moving to excellent would be better, but eh, compromise means you don't get exactly what you want! :P | |||
(12:18:51 AM) MaJoR1: if you are ok with that, I can write up a formal proposal on the wiki and put it up, so we can bikeshed on the definition of perfect ;) | |||
(12:19:41 AM) Kolano: That's perfectly fine, was going to ask you to do so, so I can get back to Fallout 4. Also, don't think compromising let's you get out of explaining some of the problems you were referencing. ;) | |||
... | |||
(12:23:25 AM) Kolano: k, I think I've seen the jittering thing, I would like more specifics on the off by 1 pixel masking issue. | |||
(12:23:43 AM) MaJoR1: you haven't seen it? | |||
(12:23:56 AM) MaJoR1: with crop off, lots and lots of games have the mask off by one pixel | |||
(12:24:07 AM) MaJoR1: it's an old old old dolphin problem | |||
(12:24:24 AM) MaJoR1: yet another reason why I wish crop was default :/ | |||
(12:26:34 AM) Kolano: I had never used crop till the other day, but no I don't think I've noticed it. At the same time I'm not clear what "it" is so it's hard to say. | |||
(12:28:02 AM) MaJoR1: when a fullscreen mask is in effect, often a one pixel tall line on the bottom of the screen will be outside of that mask | |||
(12:28:19 AM) MaJoR1: this could have been addressed by the off-by-one fixes that were done recently, though… | |||
(12:28:30 AM) MaJoR1: phire has been working on these oddities for a while | |||
(12:30:53 AM) Kolano: I'm sure it's prevalent, but do you know a specifically effected title I can look at. | |||
(12:31:39 AM) MaJoR1: I've been using crop almost exclusively since that feature was added, I'd need to turn crop off and check through games | |||
(12:34:29 AM) MaJoR1: sorry, you know how it is when in a rapid discussion like that… | |||
(12:34:46 AM) Kolano: k. I'd still like to have some better clarity, but this seems to be another thing I wouldn't have a problem having listed on the wiki, even if it impacts some of the ratings. It also seems like it may be fixable, so again I'm not clear that lowering current ratings should be a huge concern. | |||
(12:35:28 AM) MaJoR1: I was using it as an example of impact of why perfect was not applicable | |||
(12:35:41 AM) MaJoR1: but in the solution we talked about it isn't as big of a deal</pre> | |||
:So it seems Major may be OK with revising the description associated with the "Perfect" rating to something like '''Perfect: No relevant issues''' instead of changing the rating title. I'm still hoping we can get clearer descriptions of the global problems she's been referring to, as well. | |||