Project:General Discussions/Archive: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 04:14, 29 November 2016

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I'm not sure from where those year headings came from but they don't seem correct. Anyway, I'm just moving some old discussions here
m (Text replacement - "Platformer" to "Platform")
(I'm not sure from where those year headings came from but they don't seem correct. Anyway, I'm just moving some old discussions here)
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:This is a good point... Dialup user here so, a giant image would SUCK for me. Lots of smaller images are easier to cache. But a thousand banners on the wii page would suck no matter what for me. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 04:50, 7 February 2013 (CET)
:This is a good point... Dialup user here so, a giant image would SUCK for me. Lots of smaller images are easier to cache. But a thousand banners on the wii page would suck no matter what for me. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 04:50, 7 February 2013 (CET)


==2014-2015==
==2014==
=== Universal problems are buried ===
=== Universal problems are buried ===
I know VC titles are pretty low on the totem pole, but they are pretty cool to play in Dolphin. That said, they are kind of a crapshoot. There are a lot of problems with these games. NES, SNES, Genesis, they all have universal issues spanning every game. But uh, the universal problems are only on the system pages. The virtual console page shows every title, and people just click the game in that and boom. It's convenient, but no one goes to the system pages where the universal problems are. No one ever sees the universal problems. So, I have two solutions I'd like to propose to fix this.
I know VC titles are pretty low on the totem pole, but they are pretty cool to play in Dolphin. That said, they are kind of a crapshoot. There are a lot of problems with these games. NES, SNES, Genesis, they all have universal issues spanning every game. But uh, the universal problems are only on the system pages. The virtual console page shows every title, and people just click the game in that and boom. It's convenient, but no one goes to the system pages where the universal problems are. No one ever sees the universal problems. So, I have two solutions I'd like to propose to fix this.
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:Oh, that was awesome. Since the fix was already done and just not committed to mediawiki master, Matt_P just applied it himself. It's fixed :D. Give it a try Kolano. And thanks anonymous guy, whoever you are. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 08:27, 7 January 2014 (CET)
:Oh, that was awesome. Since the fix was already done and just not committed to mediawiki master, Matt_P just applied it himself. It's fixed :D. Give it a try Kolano. And thanks anonymous guy, whoever you are. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 08:27, 7 January 2014 (CET)
==2015==
=== 16:9 and F-Zero GX's custom cars problem restoration ===
Since the edit summary has very little space, I'm going to fill in the details here. Both of these problems (and the powersliding bug) are problems that users encountered in the emulator and asked about on the forums or made issue reports about. The custom car bug was frequently encountered and everyone thought it was Dolphin's fault, and many users have been caught running this game with widescreen hacks and asking for help with bugs! The problems are there to preemptively inform them so they will not experience the problem in the first place. They are in the problems area because to a user, it is a problem, and the problems area is where solutions to problems lie. They are however on the bottom, since they are the least important. As for 16:9 being in enhancements, Lucario's logic is not entirely wrong, as you have to do it on the console so it is an issue that would be encountered there as well. But it is wrong in that it can't be an enhancement if it is a feature of the game and not something dolphin is adding to it. Furthermore, the problem of users using the widescreen hack and then having problems with it IS a dolphin-unique problem, and this is meant to address that specifically. So the problems area is the spot it belongs in most. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 07:48, 4 November 2015 (CET)
:I haven't thought of the part where users should turn "widescreen hack" off when using the widescreen mode in the game, hence the problem on emulation side where the widescreen hack exist. I'll give you that. I'm also thinking of a new section titled "User Errors" where we can list common errors that was on the user's side. Then the custom car problem can go there and the two players one ctrl problem in Super Smash Bros. Brawl and possibly others. What's your thoughts on this? [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 08:50, 4 November 2015 (CET)
::Hmm... I think a new section is a good idea! But I'm not sure "Users Errors" is a good naming for it though... What about bugs that happen in the game that dolphin recreates, but that users think are actually dolphin problems? See the F-Zero GX powersliding bug, star fox adventures and super mario galaxy reflections, etc etc. Where would they go? So a different term might be a good idea... - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 09:58, 4 November 2015 (CET)
:::Major raises a good point here. I would like to be consistent in how we handle things, so many of these non-emu bugs have been irksome in the Problems sections. Perhaps "Non-Emulation Problems" would be a inoffensive title for these. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 10:05, 4 November 2015 (CET)
::::"Non-Emulation Problems" sounds better and it can cover more problems above, but doesn't felt right for certain kinds of problem, such as the two players and one controller in SSBB. Dolphin is still at fault for allowing the different controller settings to use the same device twice. I was thinking of a less technical term and I came up with probably the best term for all of these problems! "Common Misconceptions"?
::::On a second thought, I'm viewing the two players one controller as a real problem and that it should stay under the problem section. I can't think of any more user problems that "Non-Emulation Problems" can't cover. Either that or "Common Misconceptions", or we should continue to think of a better term that covers the user problem and sometime both user and Dolphin problem to some extent? [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 11:55, 4 November 2015 (CET)
::::"Emulation Information and Misconceptions"? [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 12:58, 4 November 2015 (CET)
:::::Just a heads-up, two players on one controller does fall in the new section, SSBB allows mixing Wiimotes with GC Controllers in real hardware, it's not Dolphin fault if the user configured the same bindings for both GCPad and emulated Wiimote. This also covers cases like [[Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars]] (which clearly says at the beginning that you can't use a Wiimote while a GC controller is plugged) and [[Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity]] (which already have a problem entry for that issue -- it should go in a new section). Said that, "Emulation Info" sounds kinda wrong for me (native 16:9 and mixing controllers can be done in real hardware too) so I would choose Common Misconceptions/Mistakes. And what about listing that section before Problems/Global Problems? Users having those common issues would quickly find the info they need without reading/rolling through all other problems (useful in pages with long problems, like F-Zero GX or SSBB). Thoughts? - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
::::::I like "False Problems". Why? This excludes ''16:9 GCN'' because this is not a problem on any level, isn't an enhancement as defined by Dolphin emulator staff, and it sets up [[Template:WidescreenGCN]] better. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 21:16, 5 November 2015 (CET)
::::::Also there are images in [[F-Zero GX#Emulation Information]] section. Since they aren't bug images in the Dolphin sense, these images need to be categorized differently. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 21:42, 5 November 2015 (CET)
:::::::The reason I came up with "Emulation Information" is because it sounds more general than "Common Misconceptions". It's very general that even the "problem" section can move under it. I'm viewing "problem" and "emulation info" similar except that "emulation info" can arbitrarily accept more things, especially the misconceptions and others that Dolphin won't fix/help because of the user incompetence. I was thinking this might cover the font issue in Sonic game as well as it still requires users to dump the BIOS for best accuracy. Not something Dolphin can help. Though, Kolano was thinking otherwise. Maybe Kolano didn't see the "Emulation Information" an applicable term for the emulation problems as well as I do (until he read this?!). Also about moving that section up above the problem section, I'd say go for it! [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 22:43, 5 November 2015 (CET)
::::::::I think emulation issues is a perfectly good term. Its clear on what its purpose is without being so specific that it excludes too much. It's good! - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 11:33, 9 November 2015 (CET)
:::::::::Just to make sure, are you suggesting Emulation Issues or you're OK with Emulation Information?  - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
::::::::::I'll give ''emulation information'' this: It '''is''' better than what we use to have but I still find it not the best solution to the problem. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 22:46, 9 November 2015 (CET)
:::::::::::Um... I don't care? By consensus the new section already is official, I was just asking MaJoR specifically about her thoughts of the new section naming. - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
::::::::::::Oh! I'm sorry! I meant Emulation Information. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 05:35, 10 November 2015 (CET)
=== 16:9 / Outdated Banners ===
Just saw [[F-Zero GX/sandbox]] and it's a big '''NO!''' from me:
* The banner is ugly and puts the 16:9 info before anything else as if it was the top priority info in a game page (which clearly it's not the case).
To finish, we already are discussing a new section for problems that aren't really problems (native 16:9, mixed controllers, etc), which looks waaaay better than this and just reinforces my point of you trying to fix a non-existent problem with this template. - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
:The design of the banners are supposed to be an eyesore as it draws your attention to the article's lack of completeness (except for the 16:9 and dual-layer banners because that information needs to have more emphasis on them than having it be somewhere easily missed in the article). It's not supposed to be there but it is with a purpose. I'm trying to give incentive to make the article/section in question to keep it up-to-date. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 20:08, 7 November 2015 (CET)
:Keep in mind that [[F-Zero GX/sandbox]] is a proof of concept and should be regarded as a prototype of the idea. Refinements will be made on both a template format level and page layout level.
:* It might be ugly now but the idea behind banners is to be a sign with important information. The position it is located now may change later.
----
::<nowiki>*sigh*</nowiki> And not related to this but why you also want to convert problems into banners? Dual-Layer games already have its own category which is easy to reach from the bottom of the page, GC games with 16:9 native support already have an entry in problems section and in those cases both will be moved to the new Emulation Info/Common Misconceptions (or whatever name we choose) and can also be accessed through its own categories. And about your complaint regarding unnecessary edits, font problem in Sonic Mega Collection was moved back and forth because of my initial complaints about the subject but eventually settled in Problems section. How this template or your banners-that-go-before-anything-else would have improved this particular case? Just stop, you made an ugly proof of concept where I can't see any way to improve, nor it provides anything better than the new section we're discussing in [[Talk:F-Zero GX]], not to mention you didn't provide any feasible reason. Unless other admins (MaJoR, Kolano) or active members like Lucario weight in pointing something positive in favouring this approach, you can consider this whole "problem rating" thing something that won't go anywhere else besides the F-Zero GX sandbox. ''If it ain't broke, don't fix it'' - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
----
::::*'''"Maybe it's better to also have in that Infobox the WidescreenGCN and DualLayerWiiDisc banners? That might be the happy middle ground that everyone will like when it comes to the Template:WidescreenGCN and Template:DualLayerWiiDiscs banners."''' - From all of this discussion that's the only thing you brought that may work, from my point of view. Again, those banner templates are completely unnecessary. First, banners won't look good inside the Infobox no matter how you design them, second, if we're going to put new things in Infobox we could just make the its template handle the categories for those cases as well (reinforcing there's no need for separate templates like WidescreenGCN and DualLayerWiiDisc) since it already handles lots of categories based on the info put in the Infobox. My approach to get those "notes" in the Infobox would be discrete icons with mouse-hover, like the peripherals section of [http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/Homebrew_Browser any homebrew app in WiiBrew], they are discrete (unlikely banners) and doesn't disrupt content flow.
::::To finish, you still failed to provide any benefit of using {{tl|RatingProblemFix}} and none of the other active admins/members shared thoughts in favour of this template, so, still don't expect this template going anywhere else besides the sandboxes, as far as I'm concerned. And about Template:WidescreenGCN and Template:DualLayerWiiDiscs, they should go as well, I suggest you trying something like peripherals section of Homebrew Channel infobox. - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
----
:::::* I have since revised the pages and cleaned up any ugliness based on your feedback.
:::::* Banners were updated and moved locations. I don't know what to tell you. Either you refuse to accept my answers or there is a true miscommunication going on here.
:::::* The ratings are there to quickly evaluate importance of certain settings deviating from the default. I don't mind talk pages but what I found kind of irritating was someone else not clear what the problems section was for.
:::::* Looked at the [[Project:Wiki Conventions#Problems|problems section]]. There is nothing about emulator vs. real hardware but rather formatting best practices for that section and talking about Dolphin's programming quirks. I rest my case.
:::::* The categories is still a disorganized mess and the emulation information section is still easy to miss (I still like ''False Problems'' because there is more precision with using that phrasing). The banners are there to make things easier to spot.
:::::* You keep taking my ideas as finalized when they are not even close to being final. That is why they are in a sandbox. Iteration is the key word here. This idea I have may go through several design iterations until it looks practical and noticeable.
:::::Overall, only you and [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] seem to have disapproval of my attempted improvements. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] is showing concern but it seems he is willing to see how I revise my implementations to look nicer. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 05:20, 6 November 2015 (CET)
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::::::* Those banners you've slapped into infobox still are ugly and takes a lot of space but already looks somewhat better than that ad-like thing in the top of the page. However, put two or more of those banners in the same infobox and you get an even messy and long infobox. As I said, change that to discrete icons with mouse-hover text ([http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/Homebrew_Browser like the example I gave from WiiBrew]) if you ever want this going official (or provide us a concept better than WiiBrew example). And just get rid of those separate templates by putting its categorize-this-page thing directly in Infobox template, '''they're not necessary'''!
----
:::::::* I'm kind of concerned that if I do like WiiBrew, my current configuration will lose visibility of more vital information such as DVD9 and 16:9 GCN games as the icons are easily recognizable for peripherals that the app supports and not technical details. I really like how WiiBrew handles warning the user about NAND modifications in the [http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/SaveGame_Manager_GX SaveGame Manager GX] example. I know the templates are unnecessary at this point but for the purposes right now, until I can settle on a design that works, it will be in that structure for now.
--[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 21:44, 6 November 2015 (CET)
----
::::::::* That's exactly my point, that "vital" information isn't that important (especially in the infobox), the icons with mouse-hover still looks like the best approach for me (especially when this kind of info will probably be detailed in the new Emu Info section as well). You can try a "NAND Warning from WiiBrew" concept to show us how they would look, just don't forget they use a slightly small font and no icons at all (and even that, still draws more attention than it should, in my opinion). [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
----
:::::::::* [[Template:DualLayerWiiDiscs]] is pretty vital for some games emulating accurately while [[Template:WidescreenGCN]] is only vital to those who want their GCN games in widescreen and might be misinformed about the select GCN games that support it natively.
:::::::::* I consider each mentioning a part of the iteration process. My initial idea was to include a section about performance over accuracy in conjunction with the current problem section that is about accuracy over performance. I consider my ratings idea a second form of my idea where the advancement is not requiring a redundant section. Instead of rejecting the idea outright, hypothetically assume that if these changes were to go in effect, what would make them more appealing? I need feedback on that and you are failing to supply me with that. Who knows? Maybe my efforts are a waste of time. I don't know for sure because it's too early to tell. I don't think so because I do believe the core idea I have can be useful for Dolphin Wiki users, even though it's current appearance may not be.
:::::::::* I'm pretty much done with my ratings idea. I need more feedback to further refine the idea. Telling me to quit working on it isn't useful in the slightest. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 04:13, 7 November 2015 (CET)
----
:::::::::* No, they are not. If you incorrectly dump a dual-layer game, in most cases the game will instantly crash Dolphin when accessing specific areas/stages or won't even boot, clearly indicating something is veery wrong with your dump. The only exception to this case is Super Smash Bros Brawl, where everything despite Subspace Emissary movies will work with a incorrect dump, but it's already noted on its own entry (currently in Problems section, but it'll transition to the new section eventually).
:::::::::::It's not really correct to say the Super Smash Bros Brawl issue is an "incorrect dump" it's a correct dump of a hacked version of the game modified to fit on a single layer disc.
::::::::::::The section I created refers to unaltered official copies of SSBB in ISO form straight from the Nintendo warehouse. Having a hacked version run on Dolphin isn't a priority as I have come to understand the current focus of its development. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 20:36, 7 November 2015 (CET)
=== Formatting Suggestion for Compilation Discs ===
I noticed some articles, such as [[Intellivision Lives!]], [[Sonic Mega Collection]], and [[Interactive Multi Game Demo Disc 2001-10]], are hard to read what the compilation consists of. I have worked on a table consisting of MediaWiki code and no templates that addresses that issue and I think I found a clear winner, found [[Interactive_Multi_Game_Demo_Disc_2001-10/sandbox|here]] taking [[Interactive Multi Game Demo Disc 2001-10]] as a base. Should I start implementing this for every article about compilation discs contents or does the table need work? --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 23:52, 23 April 2015 (CEST)
:It's Ok for me as it is now, my only requirement is converting your table into a template before implementing it everywhere: theoretically it's something we're gonna use in various pages (assuming everyone else agrees and we actually implement it), so, making it as a template allow us doing quick edits in the future that would reflect in every page using this box. - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
=== Emulation Information Position ===
Lucario, in his recent edits, put the Emulation Information section above problems, while I have historically put them below. It is something of a subjective decision, but most of the time the problems are minor, and not as critical as emulation bugs, so historically, by our conventions, they have been placed below other problems. So I assumed based on that that the Emulation Information would be placed beneath problems, and sometimes they were, and other times they weren't depending on who entered it. I was going to just move it all, but this could cause issues in the future, so we should probably get some consensus established. What location for the emulation information do you guys prefer? - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 10:46, 17 November 2015 (CET)
: As far as I remember, we sticked with Emulation Information above problems but I'm not sure either (would have to dig into that long discussions -- too lazy to do that now). So, I think we should put it above. Yes, they're minor, but it's also some very common problems, thus, it's what the user wold read first if they have issues with a bad dump (SSBB case), problems with widescreen hack (GC games with native support) or controller issues (Wii games), providing information quicker instead of rolling through the entire problems section, that can take a big amount of space (e.g. Wind Waker, which have lots of problems listed). And since emulation information isn't a section that's going to be crowded (so far I haven't saw any page with more than two small entries) I think it's a win-win case (the full page would be something like Emu Info => Global Problems => Problems => Enhancements => Config => Version Compat => Testing => Gameplay Screens => Gameplay Videos => Navigation -- Emu Info and Enhancements only present in pages that have suitable entries, Global Problems only in VC pages and Navigation only where applicable). - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
:It's position doesn't bother me one way or the other. To hopefully build consensus I'll say list them first. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 15:40, 17 November 2015 (CET)
::Well, I don't entirely agree, but you have reasonable thought behind it, and Kolano got me :P. The top it is! - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 11:32, 18 November 2015 (CET)
=== Config Template Slight Wording Tweak ===
After having a talk with [[User talk:Kolano#Edit You Did|Kolano]] about having my confusion cleared up what should be included in the configuration section of each disc wiki page, I think [[Template:Config|the template]] should read "Only configuration options for the best ''accuracy'' where they deviate from defaults are listed" instead of "Only configuration options for the best ''compatibility'' where they deviate from defaults are listed" (without italics). Anyone agree? --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 21:11, 24 April 2015 (CEST)
:Compatibility = accuracy, pretty much. This wiki uses the term compatibility because the word is used alway used to describe how well a game plays in an emulator. And the language is consistent and pervasive throughout the wiki and the site: "Compatibility Wiki" with "Compatibility Lists" (see the left sidebar) and "Compatibility Ratings". Even the main page has a compatibility section with compatibility ratings from this wiki! It's all tied into larger emulation concepts of what the word compatibility means for an emulator, and I think it's still a valid term. We could change it to accuracy just there for clarity, but then it becomes out of sync with the terminology in the rest of the wiki, which imo should remain compatibility. I'm not like completely opposed or anything, but I'm not really in favor of this idea. Anyone familiar with emulation should get what compatibility is pretty quickly. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 08:44, 29 April 2015 (CEST)
::As defined by Google: "A state in which two things are able to exist or occur together without problems or conflict." That doesn't describe accurate emulation because there are some problems even with that like speed loss. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 09:43, 29 April 2015 (CEST)
=== Regions Consistency ===
I think we should shorten the region code for Australia and Russia to AU and RU. There is currently no consistency with the others(JP,NA,EU,KO) being two letter codes. [[User:Zephyrsurfer|Zephyrsurfer]] ([[User talk:Zephyrsurfer|talk]]) 09:48, 8 November 2014 (CET)
=== Influx of Bot Generated Accounts ===
I think we had discussed previously the accounts that seem to be generated by bots of some sort. The number of accounts registered is starting to get a bit ridiculous, even if there are no follow-up spam posts. Is the captcha/other constraints used configurable enough that they could be modified to stem the flow a bit? [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 17:39, 8 March 2014 (CET)
It is configurable, but what do we do? It appears as though they have figured out our captcha trick for account creation but then get hit on the post captcha, so we just get tons of random accounts. But we don't even have access to IP addresses to find similarities for banning :(. Do you have any ideas? - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 09:52, 9 March 2014 (CET)
I'd have a feeling that things aren't targeting this wiki specifically. Adding some additional custom query, even if it didn't change with each registration, in addition to the standard one provided by the captcha tool might cut things down. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 17:18, 9 March 2014 (CET)
Agreed. But I still need something more specific... Are you talking about a second captcha just for signing on? Or just a new custom query for our existing captcha system? - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 23:00, 9 March 2014 (CET)
Wouldn't a simple solution do it? E.g. adding the "you need to type in the name of the emulator here" bit that we use for editing articles to the registration, and/or adding another captcha? That wouldn't be too complicated to implement, and is a good first attempt: if it doesn't succeed, ok, we'll have to look into some more "advanced" options, if it does, yay, simple solution to the problem. [[User:Incassum|incassum]] ([[User talk:Incassum|talk]]) 19:54, 10 March 2014 (CET)
"you need to type in the name of the emulator here" is already in the registration process. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 03:38, 11 March 2014 (CET)
What about using more questions (randomly selecting one of them each time) or using a captcha method based on mouse input only, like these simple jigsaw puzzle based? Right now I remember of KeyCaptcha, but AFAIK it isn't free... [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
=== 4.0 is released! ===
Alright! 4.0 has been released! Well, you know what that means: CLEAN UP. Removing all of those old crossed out problems. I have a few other things I want to bring up though.
*New Logo - Yep, we have a new logo! Made by yours truly. It comes in blue and grey, so I feel like I need to ask... do you guys think blue is better, or do you like the grey?
*3.5-367 notice - We need to change that to a 4.0 announcement! Maybe I'll go ahead and do that.
*[[How to update Dolphin]], [[Installing Dolphin]] - Delete them, or remake them to fit the global user directory changes?
*D3D9 is going to go away. VERY SOON. That's going to be a royal nightmare for us... I'm not sure there is any preparations we can do. How do you guys think we should handle the transition?
Well I've been up to my neck helping out with the 4.0 transition, from the logo and themes to testing and helping out with a video that will be released soon. I'll be resting for a few days before I help out on a large scale. So what do you think about the things I brought up? - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 17:48, 22 September 2013 (CEST)
: OK, a few things here...
:* The new logo seems to be less tall than the old one, resulting in an excessive gap beneath the logo and the side-navigation.
:* I'd be OK with the blue logo version here, the Wiki could use some color.
:* We also need to consider revisions to the compatibility boxes to allow them to display the recent revision history in more detail (i.e. each px of the graph now covers 3+ revisions, so tightly packed release issues can get hidden. We also need to account for converting the 4.0-xxx release indicators into the simpler release counts used.
:* I revised the notice to use a proper link rather than just text URL. Not clear if there was a reason it had been done that way, or delroth was just unfamiliar with the wiki markup.
:* Regarding DX9, we should be able to add a check into the Config template to identify pages indicating DX9 stuff. But it will be a big clean-up, and likely to lead to feuds with users on XP, that can't use newer DX's.
[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 19:45, 22 September 2013 (CEST)
-------
:* I like more the blue version of the new logo...
:* Should we consider deleting [[Performance Guide]] too, or perhaps pointing to Dolphin manual instead? [[How to update Dolphin]] it's kinda useless now, since you just need to obtain a new copy and by default everything will work because of the global directory. [[Installing Dolphin]] could be updated with instructions for stable releases and development builds...
:* The only issue I see with DX9 removal is updating the wiki, any user running Windows XP with Dolphin probably have a GPU that meets the minimum requirements for running the emulator, so they can just use OpenGL. Also, Windows XP support from Microsoft will be ended soon (April 2014), so, Dolphin users with WinXP will have to deal with it (updating the system or using an older version -- a lot of softwares stopped being updated from WinXP already)
:* Couldn't we ask delroth to just run a bot that searches all game pages for entries with <code><nowiki><s> </s></nowiki></code> and delete them?
I'm going to help soon, right now my highest priority is updating the (still unofficial) [http://portableapps.com/node/35614 portable version] at PortableApps.com - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
-------
A critical issue slipped into 4.0: Single Core crashes. So they are releasing 4.0.1 in a few hours to replace 4.0. This is certainly going to throw a wrench into the version compatibility graph...
*Blue logo - Cool. Tomorrow I'll ask delroth to update it. As for the spacing, the logo is trimmed, so it's on mediawiki's side. Honestly, I like it. The logo has prominence that way.
*The Dolphin Manual isn't completed yet, sadly. With 4.0 and that pesty "real life" hitting me at the same time I've been crazy busy, and so has shonumi. :( We'll need to patch the performance guide yet again, even though it's stupid. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 04:28, 23 September 2013 (CEST)
=== Category Format Clean-up ===
Categories have been put together in a fairly ad-hoc way. That has resulted in a few issues...
*Overlaps in categories for different usage: Arcade platform vs Arcade genre
*Different capitalization styles (All initial caps vs just first initial cap)
*General sloppiness across category naming
I think I'd like to clean such up, standardizing to something like "<Category Grouping>:<Category Identifier>" so we'd have categories like "Platform: Arcade", "Genre: Arcade", "Publisher: Nintendo", "Input Supported: Wii Remote", "Initial Release Year: 2011". A lot of such can be performed with changes to Infobox, but some things like the platform/image categories would require many edits. I'd probably want some automated assistance with that. Feedback would be appreciated.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 08:28, 5 September 2013 (CEST)
:I agree with this. Just the result of lots of manual editing over time. I trust you'll handle it well. If I see anything I don't like I'll whine. When you email delroth the instructions give us a headsup here please. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 12:28, 6 September 2013 (CEST)
::OK, initial change associated with this has been enacted. Will take a while for the initial template changes to percolate through the wiki. Should cover most of the categories outside of platforms, and any other direct in-page ones. Will likely start on the red-link elimination tomorrow (i.e. the 17th), not sure if there is any automation that could help with such. A few related issues:
::* One issue with the revised category names, is that although things still sort alphabetically. Since all categories in a group are prefixed with the same term, they no longer group together by letter. I think I may revise things to use a postfix instead to address that. Such will make the global categories listing messier (since groups won't group together), but would improve the display of individual category pages. Please let me know your thoughts.
::* When we transition the Platform categories, do we just want to move toward listing the platforms in the infobox, rather than as a separate item? [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 09:00, 17 September 2013 (CEST)
:::Fine with me. I don't know anything regarding the revised category names grouping though, sorry. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 04:58, 18 September 2013 (CEST)
This is almost complete now. Unfortunately I failed to add categories to the newly created categories, so I need to do one more pass to add appropriate ones in. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 04:50, 17 October 2013 (CEST)
OK, this should be done now, outside of the platform migration to the infoboxes. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 07:20, 17 October 2013 (CEST)
=== Infobox Enlinkening ===
OK, I think I'm about done with my edits to how infobox generated categories are handled and the addition of linkages to those generated categories. Sorry for the recent spew of edits related to such without much discussion. Please do let me know your thoughts. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 06:11, 5 September 2013 (CEST)
:Looks good to me. I don't know about the internals of how it works, but I don't care about that :P. From an end user standpoint it looks and works great. That's what counts. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 12:28, 6 September 2013 (CEST)
=== Mass redirecting gameids ===
Just a quick heads up: I've been running a script to automatically add about 500 missing gameid redirects (thanks to skid_au for the data!). See https://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&limit=500&hidebots=0 . It should be safe but if you notice anything weird, please tell me so I make it better next time.
I'll also squash some double redirects while I'm at it. [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 14:16, 25 August 2013 (CEST)
Just adding a quick note here, that we likely need to run through the process that generated the GameID redirects initially again, as well as generally identifying where they are missing, since there are likely a variety of recently added games/pages without them now. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 07:14, 7 November 2014 (CET)
=== Global Problems behavior ===
Ok, I worked on it today and now I have something to show to you, so we can decide if the template is going to work that way and so see if everyone agree. First of, the template is still WIP, so, the current code is messy and the documentation is missing. I'm having a lot of issues with empty space, but I'll try to fix that soon. Right now, the template are working this way:
* Global Problems of all VC pages are shown in the Main [[Virtual Console]] page.
* Specific problems of that platform are shown in the list of that platform.
* In the lists, the Global Problems section is ALWAYS shown, even if no problems exist.
* In the game pages, the "Global Problems" section are shown only if at least 1 global VC problem or 1 platform specific global problem exist. Otherwise this section is hidden.
* The Global Problems section in a game page first list the platform specific issues and after that the global VC issues of {{tl|GlobalProblems/VirtualConsole}}, like this:
<pre>
=== Active platform-specific issue 1 ===
=== Active platform-specific issue 2 ===
[...]
=== Active platform-specific issue N ===
=== Active global VC issue 1 ===
=== Active global VC issue 2 ===
[...]
=== Active global VC issue N ===
=== <s> Fixed platform-specific issue 1 </s> ===
=== <s> Fixed platform-specific issue 2 </s> ===
[...]
=== <s> Fixed platform-specific issue N </s> ===
=== <s> Fixed global VC issue 1 </s> ===
=== <s> Fixed global VC issue 2 </s> ===
[...]
=== <s> Fixed global VC issue N </s> ===</pre>
It's a little redundant but this design make sure that all Dolphin users will see these problems, even people who jumps directly in the game page through the Wiki context menu present in Dolphin itself. Furthermore, [[The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask]] is already using the global template and I'm going to remove that "test issue" from the VC global templates soon, I need it for testing. Before committing this to the other platforms, I'll (try to) fix all spacing problems and make the template source more readable, but I need feedback here, any objection or suggestion? [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
:Forgot something, the placement: Global Problems should be before or after the Problems section? [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
::Before. The Problems section for most VC games will be blank, and 9 times out of 10 it will just be the Global Problems. Furthermore, it mirrors how it is on the game lists. Oh, and don't forget the helpers for new users. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 06:32, 10 August 2013 (CEST)
----
So Jhonn, finished? It seems like you got it; it's fully functional and very easy to use. As far as I'm concerned, add documentation and you're done. Anything else you want to do with it before we put it everywhere? - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 10:18, 12 August 2013 (CEST)
: Yep, finished... I'll add the search-and-replace strings in [[Project:To Do]], so you could ask delroth for the script. If the automation fails, then tell us and we go in the manual way. [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
:: Done. A very small amount of pages already had GlobalProblems inclusions - these weren't modified, even when they were obsolete. I unfortunately don't have a list. [[User:Delroth|delroth]] ([[User talk:Delroth|talk]]) 21:33, 12 August 2013 (CEST)
::: Thanks delroth. Only two pages already had the GlobalProblems (I commited manually to test), so, no worry. I reverted some pages that we're using Arcade category but weren't Virtual Console Arcade games, so everything is perfect now. Thanks again... [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
=== Global Problems Template ===
Splitting this to get more attention. Well, I started coding the global problems template for VC games, and before I continue the work, I need to get opinion of you guys regarding how we'll handle the universal problems in every VC game page. First off, I fell this necessary because some users just jump directly in the game page through context menu option in the emulator or by the forum thread, so, we need to add the universal problems in the game page too. Regardless of what design we choose, we'll need to add a template call in every VC game page (yes, it's a booooring job that has to be done -- at least there aren't to much VC game pages created). But before I continue working in the template, we need to decide how we'll show this, and I have two suggestions: first, calling the template without an argument (eg. in a game page) create a section named "Global Problems", and parse the problems for that system. The second one, is adding the template call after the specific problems, this way, the global problems will just appear together with the specific problems. Do you guys have any other suggestion? What you prefer? I vote for the first one... [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
<s>I could ask delroth</s> I asked delroth about making a script for putting the global problems template into every VC game page. As soon as we get thing settled on how it should be used, he should be able to commit the global problems to every VC game page. To that end we might want to double check as make sure all the virtual console games are in [[:Category:Virtual Console]], as that's what I was going to suggest he use (unless you guys have a better idea?). As for the options, I vote for the first one. A "global problems" section in each game would be better; having the global problems inline could cause some confusion. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 09:35, 3 August 2013 (CEST)
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Ok, if we're going to use the first suggestion, we'll need to add the following in every VC game page:
<pre>
{{GlobalProblems/<system>}} <!-- To edit the <system> VC Global Problems, navigate to "Template:GlobalProblems/<system>" (copy to the search box)-->
</pre>
This way I can code the template to only show the Global Problems section if there are global problems for that platform so I can get rid of the <no problems placeholder> -- any objections?
About the automation, I'm unsure if we can use [[:Category:Virtual Console]], because the text above changes from platform to platform... We need to replace <system> with N64 in N64 VC game pages, SNES in SNES, etc. Do we have category based on platform for the VC titles? If this doesn't work, I'm ok in doing this manually (we haven't a lot of VC game pages created, anyway)
Furthermore, the global problems will be shown before or after the specific problems? I think before is better, so we have Global Problems section (it'll show only if there are at least one global problem for that platform), and after that, the regular Problems section like we have now. What do you guys think? [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
----
You're right. Fortunately, every VC game has two categories: [[:Category:Virtual Console games]] and the system category, say, [[:Category:SNES games]]. We can use that to pick between the platforms. And I agree with you: putting global problems before the standard problems is probably the best option. Well, it seems like we agree, I don't know where Kolano is though... Well, I'd prefer to wait until Kolano chimes in. Or at least just wait a couple days then go with it.
Well, once we get everything settled, I can send delroth an email about the script. Or perhaps it's better if you do it Jhonn? You are more involved with the template. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 04:36, 4 August 2013 (CEST)
:Well, I'll just wait a bit more to get Kolano opinion and then finish the template. After that we see how we'll handle the migration... [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
::I'm fine with the plan here. Though having some automated way of updating the VC pages would be nice, really there are rather few VC pages in total as of yet (only ~80), so a manual update wouldn't be too hard. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 08:39, 4 August 2013 (CEST)
----
Alright, everyone seems fine with it, so I'm going to send the email to delroth. I'll recommend he use the system categories to know what to put where, and tell him to place it above the problems section. If anyone wants to do it manually they can just do it first. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 06:13, 6 August 2013 (CEST)
=== Purge CPU Arch Indicators ===
I have been thinking of purging out the OS bit depth indicators (i.e. x86, x64, x86_64). They made sense back when x86 and x64 versions of Dolphin were offered, but now that we only support x64 I'm not clear that they do. Raising here to double check if there are any concerns before I more forward with the big search-n-replace needed to purge them. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 04:24, 10 October 2015 (CEST)
: I'm fine with this. We don't support 320bit on any platform now. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 09:50, 10 October 2015 (CEST)
=== Global Problems Template ===
Well, just a reminder: when you add/remove a problem from some Global Problem template, it will not show the recent edit. After you're done, make sure to click "Edit" and then save the page again (without doing any change) one more time to force refresh the templates. It seems that just waiting the wiki server refresh the page isn't working, maybe because the extensive use of variables... [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
We need to get this documented on the Global Problems template docs. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 08:24, 6 October 2015 (CEST)
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