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:: Purged out the unused images. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 06:52, 13 March 2017 (CET)
:: Purged out the unused images. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 06:52, 13 March 2017 (CET)
=== Problems section automation ===
Okay, that's something that bothered me for a long time but I couldn't find a "good" way to address, at least until now. Basically, the Problems section exists on all game pages, but on games without any problem, it's just an empty section without any information (that bothers me), and when it have problems it's not always correctly flagged in [[:Category:Pages with active problems]] or [[:Category:Pages with fixed problems]] because it relies on {{tl|issue}} or {{tl|s}} being called somewhere in the page, which isn't always the case.
After some tinkering, I think I found a good way to address those points without making things complicated. It's actually using the new {{tl|Problems}} template I just made. Similar to {{tl|Config}}, it takes the input then handle it accordingly. I also made the usage as simple as possible, take the example below (this is how the problems section looks like nowadays):
<pre>
== Problems ==
=== Problem 1 ===
Game XXX has an issue when using save states, which will corrupt your save file.
{{Problems/VP6 Videos}}
=== {{s}}Fixed Problem 2{{/s}} ===
Game XXX will display corrupted graphics when using EFB2Tex, use EFB2RAM to avoid that. Fixed in {{revision|5.0-1000}}.
</pre>
To use {{tl|Problems}}, the modification in the page is pretty small. For example, that's how it would look:
<pre>
== Problems ==
{{Problems|
=== Problem 1 ===
Game XXX has an issue when using save states, which will corrupt your save file.
{{Problems/VP6 Videos}}
=== <s>Fixed Problem 2</s> ===
Game XXX will display corrupted graphics when using EFB2Tex, use EFB2RAM to avoid that. Fixed in {{revision|5.0-1000}}.
}}
</pre>
The call to {{tl|Problems}} should be added into every game page (and well, we have MassEditRegex in our favour) and it has the following advantages:
* It deprecates {{tl|s}} and {{tl|/s}} and also the workaround currently implemented in {{tl|issue}} templates. It also somewhat achieves the same goals of the experimental {{tl|Active}} and {{tl|Fixed}} templates, so, 4 less templates to maintain and one workaround dropped.
* Similar to Config section, it provides a nice "Currently there's no known problems with this game." text on pages without any problem entries (that's something I always wanted to have).
* It accurately flags pages under [[:Category:Pages with active problems]] or [[:Category:Pages with fixed problems]] without depending of external templates and correctly track even active problems without an issue link (something we currently don't track).
* It also flags pages with potentially misformatted entries (e.g. the problems section is not empty and did not get flagged in any of the active or fixed problems categories).
* From my preliminary testing, it works without issues with any of the {{tl|Problems}} subtemplates as well.
* You can also use the <tt>type=</tt> parameter to better reflect the page type (e.g. channel pages). This parameter is optional and works exactly like the <tt>type=</tt> parameter from {{tl|Config}}.
And well, there's a single disadvantage, but given the benefits I think it's perfectly doable: the "[edit]" button disappears from the individual entries, but you can still find it under the main "Problems" section. So, given the benefits, I almost started implementing this everywhere, but it's a somewhat big change, so I would like to hear any thoughts you guys might have before starting (especially from [[User:Kolano]] and [[User:MaJoR]]). - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) 07:56, 19 November 2016 (CET)
: The missing edit buttons are deficit. That will likely require looking at each specific Problem edit to tell what was revised (i.e. since section titles won't appear in the Recent Changes list). I'm supportive of this though, since I'd like to see the Active Problems functionality restored. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 20:09, 19 November 2016 (CET)
: Going to try it out on a few pages so we can get a feel for how it works, presuming it works well enough to not bother with sandbox pages...
:*[[Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban]] ([https://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=Harry_Potter_and_the_Prisoner_of_Azkaban&oldid=126383 /wo template]
:*[[The Price Is Right 2010 Edition]] ([https://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=The_Price_Is_Right_2010_Edition&oldid=124728 /wo template]
:...Price is Right shows it successfully adding to [[:Category:Pages with active problems]] category without an embedded {{tl|Issue}}. Would be nice if some extra parsing could allow flagging such (i.e. problems /wo issues).
:[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 02:21, 20 November 2016 (CET)
:: Do we want to pull the Problems heading into the template as well. We already do so for the Problems subtemplates. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 03:01, 20 November 2016 (CET)
::: I particularly don't. I intentionally left the main "Problems" heading out of the template so we can get the "[edit]" button on it at least (e.g. similar to config template). If we insert it into the template the button will be gone and so edits in the problems section would be less obvious on [[Special:RecentChanges]], outsiders might not understand why the other sections have edit buttons while Problems doesn't, etc etc. Regarding flagging pages with active problems but without issues, <s>I think it's doable by using #varfinal, I'll try to get that working</s> Seems more tricky than I thought, but I think I can still find a way to do this by messing with RegExp capture groups, stay tuned - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) 04:09, 20 November 2016 (CET)
::: I agree with Jhonn, it'd be less consistent with other heading 2 sections (== text ==) and thus will confuse the editors. I'm perfectly fine with heading 3 sections (=== text ===) to not have edit button, that will be great for edit summary too, we don't need to see some obscure problem name but something we're very familiarized with, "Problems". [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 05:40, 20 November 2016 (CET)
:Compared to [[Template:Active]] and [[Template:Fixed]], this will provide text that there's no known problems to the Problems section with empty contents. It also doesn't require use the same templates constantly for the multiple problems. There are downsides against [[Template:Problems]] too but I'm gonna refrain from saying it. [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 05:40, 20 November 2016 (CET)
Okay, it's done. Flagging pages with active problems but without issue links was harder than I though but it's now implemented. Basically it does a RegExp query to find how many active problems the page has (it does that by "counting" level 3 headings without <nowiki><s></s></nowiki>) and after that it loops through the text of each "active" heading it found earlier querying for "<nowiki>[https://dolp.in/i<number>]</nowiki>" (it wasn't possible to search for {{tl|issue}} calls directly because the template was parsed before the RegExp query). Although it currently does that lookup only on active problems, I left in the template some "base" code enabling us to do the same with fixed problems as well, if we need (maybe tagging pages with fixed problems without a revision link? Not sure if that is useful but it's that kind of thing which is possible to do). TL;DR, it outputs a nice text saying there are no problems if the section is empty and accurately flag pages under [[:Category:Pages with active problems]], [[:Category:Pages with fixed problems]], [[:Category:Pages with active problems missing issue links]] or [[:Category:Pages with misformatted problems]] without needing additional templates like {{tl|s}}, {{tl|/s}}, {{tl|active}} and {{tl|fixed}} or the workaround in {{tl|issue}}. If there's nothing more you guys want to ask or to add on {{tl|Problems}}, I'll start implementing it on all pages... - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) 06:40, 23 November 2016 (CET)
:One more thing, do you think we should do something with Global Problems section as well? It'd be abnormal to read the Problems template saying there's no problems with a game although there is one or several right under Global Problems section. If we're gonna integrate the Global Problems section into this Problems template we'd have to include the heading 2 section "Problems" too, this will sacrifice the Edit button however. I'll go for sentence rewrite route. Perhaps let Global Problems template tell the Problems template (using [[Extension:Variables]] "#vardefine:" and "#var:") there are problems under it and use alternate sentence. Or we shouldn't mind about it too much? [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 07:07, 23 November 2016 (CET)
::It should be possible to have the Global Problems template output a variable we can pick up on in the Problems template to account for that. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 09:44, 23 November 2016 (CET)
::: Done. Refer to [[Kirby's Adventure]], [[Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts]] or [[Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars]] to see {{tl|Problems}} behavior on different scenarios when used on VC pages. Is there anything else you guys want? - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) 16:39, 24 November 2016 (CET)
:::: I'm not comfortable with problem template saying "Excluding Global Problems listed above, ..." because the compatibility rating is supposed to take problems from Global Problems and Problems sections into account and if problem template tells that there are no problems besides global problems, it seems to tell that compatibility rating should do the same. [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 20:32, 24 November 2016 (CET)
::::: Global Problems are (and always were) taken into consideration when assigning a rating, and as I said in the edit summary, the message shown here can be tweaked. BTW, I'm not sure if the issue tracker should be linked here either, AFAIK the devs intentionally made it not too evident (not even the main website links to it after all) - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) 00:44, 25 November 2016 (CET)
:::::: I see. The sentence that points to Dolphin's issue tracker was actually just filler to make the section don't look empty. :P I'm not comfortable with it saying something like "excluding Global Problems above". [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 22:52, 25 November 2016 (CET)
:::::: Just noticed the unused parameter "Wikipedia". This has been overlooked when I was copy/pasting from [[Template:Infobox VG]]. I thought I'd like to point that out. Also, would it be better if we renamed the category "Active Problems" to "Ongoing Problems"? [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 00:09, 2 December 2016 (CET)
=== Category Intersection Search ===
it seems that there is no option for searching pages that are a part of two categories or more, at once. if you see the last section of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Category_intersection#Tools_currently_available this mediawiki page] then you will find the various options for doing so. however, dolphin wiki's [https://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=Special:Search special:search] page does not work with with, for example:
incategory:Multiplayer_(Game_mode) incategory:Fighting_(Genre)
or even if just using one of the above. so i propose that if fixing that is not simple, that [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Multi-Category_Search the extension found in the mediawiki article above], is installed. i, personally, would find it extremely useful, and it seems it would take only minutes to install.
[[User:Drmario|Drmario]] ([[User talk:Drmario|talk]]) 17:07, 12 September 2016 (CEST)
: Thanks for the heads-up. Since this is something potentially useful, I requested to one of the guys who maintain the website to install this extension, but he's away and so it will take some days until he can install it to us. In the mean time, I think you can use the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DynamicPageList3 DPL3 extension] we have on this wiki to generate a report of pages which intersect as workaround. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] probably can help you more with its usage (you can also check any of the [[Template:Problems|Problems]] templates for usage examples as they also uses DPL3 extension). - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) 21:24, 12 September 2016 (CEST)
:: thank you for the fast reply. i noticed it the next day, but decided i'd see what happens next, as i wasn't sure how simple dynamicpagelist3 would be. but, i tried it today and it's relatively straightforward, but only after having spent 40 minutes with it - i'm not the first person to say the manual is a bit confusing, as it seems it is a very complex extension, with a tonne of options. i added a few much [http://help.gamepedia.com/DPL:Example_-_Select_by_Category simpler examples] to the manual, based on what i wanted to do. but i think other users with the same problem might appreciate the more specific GUI [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Multi-Category_Search multi-category search] extension on the mediawiki, if they are not as comfortable with wikicode, or if they don't find this 'general discussions' page. provided it doesn't cost much overhead, of course.
:: [[User:Drmario|Drmario]] ([[User talk:Drmario|talk]]) 14:30, 17 September 2016 (CEST)
=== 5.0 announcement ===
* What needs to be done here in context of the Wiki apart from the 'Progress continues' message being updated?
** <s>Updates to the {{tl|Revision}} and {{tl|VersionRevision}} templates. I think most of the baseline stuff is there, but the specific release # to associate with 5.0 still needs to be set, and some other tweaks may be needed.</s> (done, I think)
** <s>Purging of [[:Category:Pages_with_fixed_problems|4.0 resolved issues]]</s> (done)
* Feature differences between 4.0 stable and 5.0 that might require some page updates
** There should be few, if any, of these as we have accounted for development releases throughout the 4.0 cycle.
5.0 Release time is basically... right now! Me and JMC are busy getting everything ready on the blog side. Someone else will need to get things ready here. The current goal is Sunday, and all signs are pointing to us making it, so we don't have a lot of time! - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 22:07, 14 June 2016 (CEST)
:Oh, one minor note. About issues that can still happen when opening the graphics configuration menu - I'd really like for them to stay. Right now some are marked as fixed and others are not, so if we purge all fixed issues right now it will be a mess... What do you guys think we should do we these? Precedent is all over the place right now! - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 22:10, 14 June 2016 (CEST)
:So, what's the plan? Wait until 5.0 is out officially to start purging <s>crossed</s> entries? Or start right now? I have some free time during this week, so I can help with the purging... - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) 05:05, 15 June 2016 (CEST)
::Weren't we going to automate it? - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 07:11, 15 June 2016 (CEST)
:::Since we isolated crossed entries on a separate category, I'm pretty sure we can do that with some RegExp trickery. But then, some issues that can still happen when opening the graphics configuration window would be purged too (the ones that were crossed). If we're really going to automate it, we should go through the pages manually to check that case you noted before starting... - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) 08:57, 15 June 2016 (CEST)
::::Yea, probably best to do it manually so we can check and make sure everything is correct... Or should I say, you should do it, I'm too busy! :P - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 04:58, 16 June 2016 (CEST)
: I have a big deliverable on a work project on the 20th, so I won't have much time here. Regarding the graphics options issue, I'd kind of prefer to just purge them and then come back with a generic "Opening Config Can Cause Issues" statement on every game that has an INI file. The current coverage seems pretty scattershot. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 05:13, 16 June 2016 (CEST)
::Wouldn't that be hundreds of games though? By having it in the problem it is much more specific, too. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 08:44, 16 June 2016 (CEST)
::: Well, since we're running out of time, I think I can isolate pages from the [[:Category:Pages with fixed problems]] that have references to graphics settings with some special searches. After filtering out those pages we could proceed with the mass purge and decide later what to do on the remaining pages with issues that can still happen when opening the graphics configuration menu. I personally think that moving those problems to Emulation Information may be a good deal (similar to the Bounding Box entries on Paper Mario games -- they are already listed on Emulation Information). What do you think? - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) 02:10, 17 June 2016 (CEST)
:::: That works for me! Thank you for doing it! Sorry I can't be of much help, I'm exhausted from all of this 5.0 prep >_< - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 03:08, 17 June 2016 (CEST)
A quick update: by purging the global problems templates, the number of pages with fixed issues dropped to 275 from the previous 700+ (YAY!). Before filtering the crossed issues related to opening graphics settings, I tried to use RegExp to automatically purge the remaining entries (just a test) and... Database Error. Apparently the RegExp sentence is somehow too complex and we can't proceed. I'll contact Parlane to see if he can do something about that, in the worst scenario I'll start purging manually (fortunately the number of pages with <s>crossed</s> entries isn't that big) - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) 07:01, 18 June 2016 (CEST)
:I'm impressed that there is massive drop in number of fixed issues just by purging out from the global problems templates. I may join and do the manual work purging out the fixed problem. [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 07:20, 18 June 2016 (CEST)
::Actually that was expected, as the name implies, those global problems are shown in every single Virtual Console game page. And regarding RegExp issue, Parlane is now aware and will look into it soon... - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) 08:27, 18 June 2016 (CEST)
Another quick update: the Replace Text plugin we were using only supported a limited subset of RegExp functions and that's what was causing the problems. After some discussion with Parlane, Replace Text plugin was dropped and now we have [[Special:MassEditRegex|MassEditRegex]] instead (and as usual, only accessible by admins). MassEditRegex doesn't have the limitations from Replace Text and I'm almost ready, I'll probably start the purging later today. Oh, and I almost forgot, edits made through MassEditRegex are marked as bot edits, so they won't spam [[Special:RecentChanges]] unless you explicitly ask it to show bot edits. - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) 03:13, 20 June 2016 (CEST)
: Okay, I pressed the red button, mass edits finished and apparently everything went well. There are some pages that used non-standard formatting and thus didn't get caught on the RegExp query or that have issues that can still happen when opening the graphics configuration menu. Since the number of pages needing special treatment seems very small, I'll take care of them manually now, everything regarding page purging should be done very very soon :) - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) 04:01, 20 June 2016 (CEST)
:: A bit uncomfortable with the lack of logging for the new-Regex. It's now impossible for anyone but the implementer to review what happened. I have faith in you Jhnonn, but it makes it impossible for others to review/provide assistance, though I guess it's logged on a per-page basis. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 05:32, 20 June 2016 (CEST)
::: The logging is there, but just like the other bots, it's [https://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&hidebots=0 not shown by default]. If you mean it's not possible to see what RegExp expression was used, we can establish a guideline to include the expression used in the summary field. For keeping record, I used two expressions, on the same query:
::: '''Find:'''
::: <tt>/(?:\={3}\s\{{2}s\}{2}[\s\S]*?\{{2}\/s\}{2}\s\={3})([\s\S]*?(?=\s\=))/</tt>
::: <tt>/(\n{3,})(\n=)/</tt>
:::'''Replace:'''
::: <tt><empty line - placeholder to avoid it being crushed by formatting> </tt>
::: <tt>\n$2</tt>
:::: I see now regarding the logging. The one other feature I'll miss was the ability to use the old plug-in's preview as a general regex search. The new one only provides 20 results, so it's not really effective for that purpose. Ah well. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 00:39, 28 June 2016 (CEST)
:::... which essentially matched every entry in the format <tt>=== <nowiki>{{s}}whatever{{/s}}</nowiki> ===</tt> and then fixed the excess of line breaks left by the first expression. - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) 05:54, 20 June 2016 (CEST)
:: Also we shouldn't just transition opening of graphics option issues related to INI conflicts to Emulation Information unedited. We need to indicate the issues now only occur in that case (and only if non-conformant options are set in the graphics config). Would probably be best to set up a new shared Problem template with the general text, that can have specific title issues postfixed to. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 05:38, 20 June 2016 (CEST)
::: For now I'm moving them to Emulation Information and tagging them with [[:Category:5.0 cleanup]] so we can track and make any edits after we discuss how we'll handle those. Also, I'm only moving those entries to emulation information if the game INI already include the settings, otherwise I'm just leaving it in Problems section (uncrossing it if necessary) - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) 05:54, 20 June 2016 (CEST)
:::: OK, yeah. Just confirmed on IRC that a merge is expected shortly post-5.0 that should resolve the issue (though I'm unclear on the details). Though it will still be there for 5.0 users it may be best to not worry about it too much. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 05:58, 20 June 2016 (CEST)
I finished the manual review, All pre-5.0 issues were purged from the wiki! At the same time, the number of pages in [[:Category:5.0 cleanup]] is smaller than I thought, so, if possible, please go through the recent edits to see if I didn't let anything slip out of my reviewing. Now it's just a matter of waiting the official 5.0 announcement to then update {{tl|Revision}} and {{tl|VersionRevision}} templates and the notice message at the top of our wiki and we're done! YAY! - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]]) 07:54, 20 June 2016 (CEST)
It's been a while now, have we finished with the review/revision of [[:Category:5.0 cleanup]]? [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 02:46, 20 November 2016 (CET)
=== Global Replacement Request ===
A spot to capture global replacement requests:
* == Problems == > == &lt;span title="Resolved problems are listed only for one prior release version."&gt;Current Problems&lt;/span&gt; ==: Aligning with wiki policies that purge older resolved problem reports. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 01:37, 29 May 2015 (CEST)
* Update testing/entry template to always include "tester=" field. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 01:36, 29 May 2015 (CEST)
=== Game .ini Documentation? ===
This is kind of building off of the discussion had on [[Talk:Metroid_Prime_(GC)]] a year ago about gameini and its relevance to the wiki, but since I'm not talking about Prime in particular and that discussion is so old I'm going to post this here.
Gameini definitely needs documentation. I think everyone agrees with that. To your average user, it probably seems like magic that he starts his game and Dolphin starts changing settings all on its own before the game even starts, and there's really no mention of it anywhere that I've seen. It just sort of exists, and even as an outsider I've seen tension surrounding it, just from my own limited glimpses into Dolphin's development. There's confusion for developers and end-users, and it all stems (primarily) from a lack of proper understanding of what the gameini settings even do and why they're there in the first place for each particular game.
I'm thinking we could kill two birds with one stone here. What we have with the wiki is a really accessible, easily understandable format that's perfect for documenting something like this. Any undertaking to try and make sense of gameini is going to take TONS of effort and I understand that completely, but if it's going to be done, I think the best option is to do it in a setting like what we have here with the wiki. Here's my idea:
Under configuration right now, we list non-default settings. This is good, and it does its job well enough, but why not expand configuration to include current defaults from the gameini right next to the non-default settings? In a separate section of course, so it wouldn't be confusing trying to figure out what settings you need to change for the game. I'm thinking we could have an expandable window that defaults as closed so that if you're doing a quick scan through the page you wont be bombarded with twenty settings that would be useless to the standard end-user. With this comes some major pros, and also some major cons, and I'll list the ones I've thought of.
Pros:
*Very easy to update, moreso than anything else on the wiki pages right now. Any user could use three clicks in the latest revision to get the gameini contents from the game's properties.
*Helpful for developers. This would keep track of current default settings in a way that's visually appealing, right next to the game's title and picture AND right next to the non-default settings to show what needs to be changed in the ini, making it much simpler to find specific games and their current settings rather than going through a giant list of game IDs and trying to find the specific ID which is for his game, probably having to use an external website like gameTDB to look up the ID, AND making it easier to understand what settings need to be changed.
*Helpful for users. With gameini settings being listed prominently, being on the game's wiki page, it'd start to familiarize users with what the gameini actually does, and why it has different settings, removing the voodoo magic stigma that plagues gameini settings right now.
Cons:
*This would take TONS of manhours to set up initially, creating a new template with all the potential gameini settings and applying it to each and every game's page. There's not much you can do about that, but this is a problem not so much with the implementation in the wiki so much as it is a problem with how complex and expansive gameini is, and a problem anyone trying to document this would run into, which will only get worse as time goes on.
*Games have multiple IDs, and different IDs can have (or even need) different settings, or be missing gameini entirely. I'm thinking for this, in the expandable window we could list the different IDs for the game horizontally on the top, and then the settings vertically on the side, making it into a grid of sorts. I don't know how difficult this would be to implement though in the template, but I'm thinking it could be done with some planning. However a user might accidentally edit the wrong column if he doesn't check his ID first, and nobody would know that the settings are wrong until they looked themselves for that specific ID. We'd need to specifically mention that before editing the user should double check the ID and make sure he's making his edits to the correct version.
*Without enough people actually updating this, it could lead to more confusion than it already does. However I don't think this is as big of a problem as it seems since once again, anyone can check their accuracy with three clicks.
Other than that, I don't know. Like I've said twice this would be a huuuge undertaking, and I'm not suggesting we do it, like, today, but I'm thinking that with the right planning and some forethought we could definitely make this work. This will need a lot of feedback though, and I get that this idea is crazy, bordering on insanity, which is why I spent a full day thinking about it before posting this. - [[User:Xerxes|Xerxes]] ([[User talk:Xerxes|talk]]) 04:21, 7 December 2014 (CET)
Actually, we don't just list non-default settings. I've been making sure problems are added with a "fixed by X setting. This setting is enabled in the gameini, but if you open the graphics configuration window the problem may appear." And the configuration area usually has all of the settings, defaults or no. I think that's a good way to handle this. It documents it, without being so nuts as to have a "gameini template". I agree that GameINI documentation is important, as kosta doesn't seem very inclined to share the magic of what does what, but I don't think we need a massive overhaul - most of the information is already on the wiki in some form, and it's actually ''explained'' here. And since any pulling of gameinis would be entirely one way, and there is ZERO documentation in the gameinis, I don't recommend any tie in to the gameini database. I think the most important thing is for us to just adopt the above scheme as the official convention. and let time and constant work fill in the blanks. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 08:11, 7 December 2014 (CET)
I understand what you mean, but there seems to be a disconnect here really. The Configuration template specifically states "non-default settings" and I've done cleanup of preset gameini settings before. I could go back and revert all those edits but right now the gameini information on the wiki is inconsistent at best and nonexistent the majority of the time, there's mentions of it here or there like on the Prime page but it's very loosely organized and generally not easy to understand at a glance (like the .ini files themselves). On the one hand, keeping every setting a game needs in Configuration is the best idea just in general for keeping track of the general state of different games' compatibility, but on the other hand it's confusing and may make new users do extra unnecessary work in Dolphin's config to get their games to run when those settings get overridden by the ini anyways. The template would allow for these settings to be clearly defined, separate from the non-default configuration, without interfering with the rest of the page's contents or cluttering Configuration/Problems with settings most users won't need to change or even know needed to be changed in the first place. We don't need to start off by adding it to every page on the wiki, maybe add it here or there as a sort of trial run for mainstream games with well documented required settings currently set by the ini, and if it doesn't pan out we can ditch it.
Or we could start labelling settings inside of the current Configuration template if they're preset by the gameini or not, though this would contradict with the global explanation for Configuration on every page of the wiki. Maybe it could be done as simply as adding a checkmark/X column to the configuration on the left side, checkmark for preset, X for not preset, or something to that effect. In the end it doesn't matter what way it's decided to do this but I think there should be some common agreement (I don't want to say policy, but maybe) on how exactly to go about explaining that settings are needed but set by default, because there doesn't really seem to be any common ground from one game's page to another when it comes to this. - [[User:Xerxes|Xerxes]] ([[User talk:Xerxes|talk]]) 08:56, 7 December 2014 (CET)
Remember what the wiki conventions say?
"These are all "common law" concepts; no one has ever set in stone how these things work, they are simply what has grown out of the wiki over its many years of existence. And they will continue to evolve as the wiki grows, and this page will be updated periodically to reflect the changes that have occurred. These conventions are not "rules" in any sense of the word, but guidelines, instructions, and help for those new to the wiki."
The non-default standard was created before the gameini system. It was created because the wiki had tons of "use EFB to Texture for speed!" things, or people just listing every setting in their emulator on a game page because it worked for them. ICK. The rules are fluid and change as circumstances change. And the circumstances have changed since that concept was enacted. The wiki needs to change with it. And that's where the non-standardization has come from - when something is not working with the current standard, things get messier and weird. The current standard isn't working, and so other ideas come in to fit the moment, and it gets mushy. It's one of the first signs that we need to start doing some tweaks. And don't worry about global explanations in the templates, all it takes to change them is consensus.
Regarding the config area, I don't think leaving things that the gameinis override is really an issue. Most users only come to the wiki when an problem occurs, and want answers as to why that problem exists. If the user is opening the graphics configuration out of habit and needs the wiki to get them to set it in the GUI to stop the habit, I'm all for it. Still, some changes to the config template might be good. some way to show gameini and non-gameini settings would be good. Unfortunately that is difficult to track and maintain, however. Kosta just does what he does and that's it. Unfortunately, the only simple solution is to just list everything the game needs, gameini or no, which is essentially what many pages already have. I have no problem with that though, but I would prefer a more elegant solution. As for problems, just list the problem out, and then say "setting set by default in the game ini but can occur under X" seems fine to me. The problems area is the best way to document bugs that the gameini overrides, since it gives us plenty of room to explain it.
Btw, any change to the templates needs to be global. That's just how the dolphin wiki is. But we can set up test pages and test templates to work out kinks.
Oh, and I would appreciate it if you reverted those cleanups. You jumped the gun a little bit there to talk about this issue after killing a bunch of stuff.
- [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 12:11, 7 December 2014 (CET)|
Fine with me. I have no problem at all reverting the edits, it'll just clutter the recent changes page a bit. One of the reasons I started this topic was because I was starting to find a lot of config stuff that was preset in the ini and I stopped purging them to get some feedback on a better way to do this, and suggest an idea (which I admit isn't perfect in the slightest). I'll try and add notes whenever possible to the Problems section explaining each issue following that format, but it'll probably take me a full day or two just to do all that writing.
I still think there's potential in a new config template or at least some kind of formalization of how this is done, whether it's through the Problems section or its own unique section, but like I said I'm not really in favor for any one plan and I was mostly throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks. Personally the way I've used the wiki for years is to check a new game I'm going to run in Dolphin and see what the general consensus is and what settings it needs or doesn't need before I play, I've never really been reactionary so I didn't consider that viewpoint at all. I still think this is a particularly important place that the wiki could be improved though but for right now if leaving settings in gameini and making note of them in Problems is the way it's being done, that's how I'll do it until there's some better infrastructure in place for this.
That was easier than expected. Most of my changes to configuration were outdated LLE requirements, so I only had a few pages to revert. But I'll keep to this format in the future if you think the pages I changed back look OK. - [[User:Xerxes|Xerxes]] ([[User talk:Xerxes|talk]]) 13:55, 7 December 2014 (CET)
This is ongoing at [[GameINI Settings/Sandbox]] and needs to be brought to completion. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 08:25, 6 October 2015 (CEST)
:Oh yea, I never did finish that... In part because Link to the past will probably never touch it. Maybe if it's an official guide (on the main page) we can tempt him to? Hmm... It might be worth sending him a PM and asking. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 12:34, 7 October 2015 (CEST)
=== MD5 / GameID capture ===
We should probably capture/list the GameIDs and valid MD5s for games to aid in avoiding issues related to bad dumps, and providing accurate regional/version release information. There are a few things we'd need to work out for such though:
*A source of info, Redump.org lists valid MD5's for GC discs and GameTDB provided them for GC discs and a subset of Wii discs (though it's unclear of the source of the Wii ones or if they can be confirmed as valid).
*How to capture the data: We'll likely need some new templates / data structures to do so.
Adding this section for future discussion so we can hopefully eventually move forward with such. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 07:58, 29 September 2014 (CEST)
----
I'm in with that. I suggest implementing this in a similar way to the Ratings, that way we can reuse the MD5 hashes across wiki templates. Something like Template:MD5/Sample_Game with the hash in plain text may do the trick. Not sure where we could get MD5 for Wii games, GameTDB has a small number of hashes for Wii games - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
: Yeah, that came up in the discussion on IRC last night. We can get a near complete set of them for GC titles from Redump.org if needed though GameTDB likely has the same set for those, but those for Wii titles seem to be less available (and possibly unconfirmed where they do exist). [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 00:22, 30 September 2014 (CEST)
I'm a little worried about this, to be honest. We have no way to confirm MD5s, so essentially we'll be relying on our sources, which are incomplete and may be wrong themselves. I'm not against the idea, just, I wish there was a way to be sure. A Wii homebrew program or something to calculate MD5s to build from on our own perhaps? I don't know. Any time we put up information that can't be verified, it makes me nervous. It could be wrong and we'd neeeever know it. - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 08:05, 2 October 2014 (CEST)
:If this gets implemented, which I'm for, could we record if it's a SL or DL disc as well? [[User:Zephyrsurfer|Zephyrsurfer]] ([[User talk:Zephyrsurfer|talk]]) 10:18, 12 November 2014 (CET)
OK, so I found today that although there is no dat file publicly available indexing Wii discs at this time, Redump.org does have one. Apparently the situation is that it's only being distributed to registered dumpers. I was able to find copies of it from early in 2014 via [http://www.mediafire.com/?fr2odoefwm613 this set of archives]. In any case that's probably as close as we'll come to known "valid" ids, and we probably should try to find a more up to date copy. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 18:08, 21 November 2014 (CET)
Should the infobox template have a section for known good MD5 checksums for each game? Dolphin has an MD5 evaluator function built-in the properties window of the game you right-click on. Let's say for [[Super Mario Sunshine]], the template lists each unique checksum for each region; one for NTSC-J, NTSC-U, and PAL when you dump them with [http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/CleanRip CleanRip]. CleanRip has gc.dat and wii.dat files that is really an XML. The Wiki redirects to the game page through game IDs so a custom script bot could easily automatically fill in the thousands of MD5 checksums using the XML attributes found in the gc.dat and wii.dat files. This would be good to ward off bug reports that rely on bad dumps of games with bug reports that rely on good dumps of games. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 08:52, 1 May 2015 (CEST)
: So it seams we may have a source for MD5s. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 17:32, 1 May 2015 (CEST)
::Oh! Didn't see this discussion. I even searched for MD5 before posting my idea! --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 23:34, 1 May 2015 (CEST)
:::Further digging into ripping Wii discs, I found out that some games are not in the XML, like [[Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing]] and [[The Sims 3]]. I could not find their generated MD5 values in the XML or their titles. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 04:45, 10 May 2015 (CEST)
=== Wii Network compatibility ===
Now that the wii-network was merged to master and we also have a stable release that support, it would be nice having a compatibility chart or rating somewhere. From tests I ran with the games that I own that have Nintendo WFC features, I suggest something like that:
* Broken: none of the WFC features work
* Unsupported: titles servers down (like MH3)
* Good: titles that have an online mode that works but some features (like Friend Codes or DLC) doesn't work or have other issues
* Perfect: titles that works in Dolphin with all WFC features it has
I'm not sure where we could put this, but my only suggestion for now is having a entry in the Infobox of games that have WFC capabilities. For functionalities that may need a NAND dump (like getting DLC) we could "rate" as good and then put a small note or tooltip. What about that? [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
:I'm not really a fan of this idea. It's a lot of information to deal with and will be very hard to maintain. Most users won't bother with it. Will you maintain it? - [[User:MaJoR|MaJoR]] ([[User talk:MaJoR|talk]]) 04:37, 14 October 2013 (CEST)
:I was also hoping to capture some further detail of titles with online features. Though many titles are covered by the "Online" modes indicator, that only covers titles supporting multiplayer online play. Some additional infobox field to show network characteristics is probably a good idea. I'd agree with major though, that we should be careful regarding the level of detail we go into. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 06:05, 14 October 2013 (CEST)
:: What about something like the ratings template? You put a number in a template subpage with the name of the game and then in the infobox we display a small text (rather than stars). I'm willing to maintain games that I own (if we proceed implementing this), but if only one person is going to handle this then the amount of work needed to implement the functionality doesn't compensate. Any other idea to simplify this to an easier way of managing? [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
:::The rating list you have above may be OK, though we need to differentiate between what you've listed as "Unsupported" above, and games that actually don't support online features at all, I'd lean towards a -1 "Servers offline" rating, 0 for unsupported, and 1-3 for supported titles. We likely should also include a notes field to provide details of issues for the Broken/Good categories (it would also be good to disallow "Perfect" ratings if issues were noted. (I also revised the text above to use "title" rather than "game", we need to remember that not all Wii software titles are games).
:::One other thing we may need to account for are tiles who's original servers are offline, but replacement servers are provided for. Though, unlike the many PC titles replacement servers have been provided for, GameCube/Wii titles may be too undocumented to provide separate server support for, it may be something the Dolphin team will want to support in future.[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 04:52, 15 October 2013 (CEST)
=== Error with Slash in Search ===
Using a forward slash in a search term (i.e. "NA/EU") results in a set of Wiki errors...
"Warning: preg_match() [function.preg-match]: Unknown modifier ')' in /home/dolphin-emu/apps/wiki/includes/search/SearchEngine.php on line 1402"
[[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 22:01, 28 August 2013 (CEST)
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