Talk:Xenoblade Chronicles

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Stuttering

Like I said, there's NO proof the graphic backend stuttering I have is related to "Shader Compilation Stuttering".

Even then, there's no solution listed (the solution is to use Direct3D, not OpenGL). This is why it should have its own section under Problems. Devina (talk) 14:03, 4 March 2016 (CET)

That's not how this works! We do not have to prove anything, you have to provide evidence that this stuttering is different from the known cause of the majority of stuttering in Dolphin: shader compilation stuttering. However, you wrote, "using Dolphin Ishiiruka's Async option in Direct3D seems to help this issue quite a bit" , and async shader compilation *only* addresses shader compilation stuttering. So according to that, the evidence favors that it is just shader compilation stuttering. - MayImilae (talk) 14:33, 4 March 2016 (CET)
I didn't write that, someone else wrote it after me. There can be NUMEROUS reasons and instances for why a game stutters, you know, it's not always the shader. For example, in this case, there could be 3 reasons: shader compilation, graphical backend, and async. And how can I prove it's not related to the shader compilation? For me, it's related to the graphical backend (OpenGL). Devina (talk) 14:45, 4 March 2016 (CET)
Async shader compilation having no effect on it would be the only way to really guess that. This was actually used to help root out disc loading stuttering not too long ago. But what was written, even if it wasn't by you, shows that async stuttering does affect it. There is a possibility that some other stuttering is going on, but if we can't isolate it enough to be able to prove that it is not shader compilation stuttering, then all we'd be doing is accepting vague maybes that cannot be reproduced reliably. We very much try to avoid things like that. :/ As for being related to graphics backends, there are a lot of potential reasons for that. Each backend caches shaders very differently and the caches are not shared. By playing Dolphin in a favored backend that backend will build up a shader cache that will eliminate stuttering, and jumping to another backend will be like OMG STUTTERING because you are suddenly without the benefits of the cache you have built up! There are a looooot of ways to be fooled by stuttering problem, which is why even shader compilation stuttering was super difficult to prove! - MayImilae (talk) 15:09, 4 March 2016 (CET)
The cause of the issue isn't really my concern, it's moreso your removal of the solution and your lack of noob-friendly approach. Currently, the article does NOT mention that moving from OpenGL to Direct3D can help stuttering, which it absolutely should. Devina (talk) 15:14, 4 March 2016 (CET)
As Major wrote, the general reason the different backends seem to react differently is most likely related to shader caching rather than significant differences in the backends. DirectX likely just seems better to you, as it's build up a pre-existing shader cache when you are testing. The asynchronous compilation provided by the Ishiiruka build may provide some assistance (and as Major noted likely indicates this is the same as the pre-existing Shader Compilation problem), but it's also an unoffical build that we don't generally support here. I think there is an option that will purge shader cache data that may make that more apparent, but I've forgotten where in the UI it's located. Purging the related files manually under Drive:\<User Folder>\Documents\Dolphin Emulator\Cache should do the trick though. Kolano (talk) 18:27, 4 March 2016 (CET)
I deleted everything in the shader cache folder, tried OpenGL, and it still LAGGED. I switched to Direct3D and it was flawless. And this occurs in the same area. Thus, a possible solution to use Direct3D should absolutely be included in this article. The article currently recommends OpenGL over Direct3D, which is a no-no for me. Devina (talk) 23:18, 4 March 2016 (CET)
Does no one care about this anymore? I already tried deleting the shader cache folder, there is NO absolute proof this stuttering is even related to shader caching, and there is currently no solution to this stuttering on the article. If no one has anything else to say, then I'll add it back. Devina (talk) 11:44, 8 March 2016 (CET)
*sigh* I've already explained this... Your theory goes against a lot of testing and experiments in stuttering. You are the one trying to convince us to accept something that sounds wrong, the burden of proof lies with you - you have to prove that this is stuttering not related to shader compilation. Other people will have to be able to confirm your results as well. - MayImilae (talk) 16:02, 8 March 2016 (CET)
Even if it IS related to the shader cache, WHY can't I post the solution and how can I prove it? I already proved it's GRAPHIC BACKEND related and that deleting the shader cache does absolutely nothing. And how would I even prove what the stuttering is related to? I'm not a developer, what you're asking is something which seems borderline impossible for me to prove. If it can't be proved or unproved, then it should be listed in the article regardless. All we know so far is that something in OpenGL causes lag and stutter which Direct3D doesn't. And why does the "burden of proof" have to be on ME and not YOU? Like I said before, there could be a hundred reasons as to why a game stutters. Devina (talk) 05:51, 9 March 2016 (CET)
Okay, can you find at least one more user which can reproduce what you're claiming here? - mbc07 (talk) 07:15, 9 March 2016 (CET)
This guy apparently had it too. But don't you have the game too? Just see if OpenGL causes stuttering and if Direct3D fixes it. Devina (talk) 09:27, 9 March 2016 (CET)
But that's evidence that it is shader cache stuttering? :/ - MayImilae (talk) 09:50, 9 March 2016 (CET)
Who knows? You know, I could just add a solution to the article 'cuz this is getting seriously asinine and we could all call it a day. How many players do I have to talk to to prove OpenGL causes stuttering which Direct3D fixes in order to warrant an inclusion in this article? 1? 5? 10? I don't see why I have to prove something which can't be proven or unproven. Devina (talk) 10:32, 9 March 2016 (CET)
The edit you linked is about an user that got the issue completely "fixed" with async shader option from Ishiiruka branch (albeit it's not a proper fix, just a hack -- not related to this discussion, though). Async shader is directly related to Shader Cache Stuttering and there's a lot of sources that can prove that. If you can't find not even one user that reproduces what you're claiming here how can you affirm the stuttering you get on OpenGL is in no way related to the Shader Cache (which is already a well known problem with this title and it's already listed in the article)? - mbc07 (talk) 16:33, 9 March 2016 (CET)
First of all, they said it "HELPED", not that it was "completely fixed". And secondly, it's not that I can't find someone. I don't even know anyone, or have any friends, who play Xenoblade on Dolphin. I'd have to make a post on the Dolphin forum just to see if anyone else is having similar issues. Thirdly, even if it IS related to the shader cache, why can't I post a viable solution on the article? Devina (talk) 07:59, 10 March 2016 (CET)
Cause: 1) The update should occur in the Shader Compilation section. 2) That's a shared section between titles with these issues. 3) We don't have clarity that using DirectX resolves the issue for any other title (or really even for this one besides your one account). Also, is it just DirectX that fixes it for you or that Ishiiruka's DirectX with async shader compilation does? We haven't well defined how to handle things here related to such non-standard builds. Kolano (talk) 14:04, 10 March 2016 (CET)

(unindent) Yes, just switching to DirectX/Direct3D from OpenGL. And yes, I'm using an official Dolphin build. Devina (talk) 16:13, 10 March 2016 (CET)

Can you give us some direction so it's possible for us to try to reproduce it? Something isolated that would allow us to narrow it down? - MayImilae (talk) 15:50, 12 March 2016 (CET)
Not that I know of? It only occurs in OpenGL, meaning there's probably something wrong in the OpenGL backend. I mean, I do have Skype and I can Share Screens, just to prove it stutters in OpenGL. Devina (talk) 12:00, 13 March 2016 (CET)

4:3 Support/Letterbox Removal cheat code causes stuttering on a real Wii console

Hello, I just stumbled across this find, after reading the April 2017 progress report, with that mentioning Xenoblade Chronicles, and me playing it right now on my Wii, since my PC is not good enough to run it fullspeed. Thing is, I only have a 4:3 SD CRT, and I was kind of annoyed that it only had a 16:9 mode, creating black bars on 4:3. But when I saw this, I was happily amazed and quickly gave it a try. First, I did it on Dolphin, because who knows what would happen, and I also have a 4:3 CRT monitor, so it was like a "scaled" test of sorts. It worked, so I just added the same code to my USB loader. It also worked... But! I immediately noticed some stuttering that never happened before, and perceived that my Wii started getting hotter. I don't know how this code works exactly, but by the looks of it, this game was supposed to have some kind of 4:3 support, since some menus "create" black bars on place of stretching, and it seems the native 16:9 bars were added over the full view, instead of being correctly scaled that way, so this code would only unlock this mode...

I don't know how the game runs in a native 16:9 display, with the Wii set that way, but I don't think it would stutter... I loved this code because it enhances the experience of playing in my big 4:3 screen, with slightly increased FOV, and since I use component cables, it's that much better. But I don't want to give my Wii a slow death by forcing it out os specs...

So, whoever created or added this code here, I wanted to ask if it forces the game to render more stuff, or makes the 16:9 mode correctly scale to 4:3 (because the home menu is "squished" inside the 4:3 screen, while in 4:3 mode without the code showed a correct 4:3 menu, without black bars), or does it simply remove the bars (unlikely, since there are so many lines to this code)? The stutters happen more often in big open fields (like the Bionis' Leg), and during heavy battles, with lots of effects, there will be big slowdowns (it happens without the code as well, but less often).

I guess if used on Dolphin, the overclock function would alleviate this issue, but since the game is already slow without doing anything on my PC (sigh...), I will only resort to playing it on the real console, so this enhancement is very welcome for me.

So thank you to whoever added this code here, but I hope it can be reviewed so that it doesn't kill Wiis XD!