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Template talk:Problems/GC Widescreen Auto: Difference between revisions

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== Being A Banner ==
== Auto vs Forced Review ==
I don't feel good with this template becoming into a banner. I'm sorry, I didn't tell about this in another discussion page. It's not going to flow with the article well in the game pages. I want this to be similar to [[template:GlobalProblems/NES]]. [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 11:15, 5 November 2015 (CET)
OK, I reviewed all the remaining titles. More titles required Force 16:9 that I had hoped. Please provide commentary below if there is anything further to say here. I don't think there is though, so I plan to purge this discussion out in a few days if there is no further feedback [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 14:42, 2 December 2015 (CET)
:This banner is awful, if we're really going to add that kind of info in the game pages, a new section (like "Emulation Info" or whatever else name we choose, as discussed in [[Talk:F-Zero GX]]) is thousands of times better than a template with this ugly banner. - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
 
::To be honest, edits were already starting to go into effect, like [[Star Fox Adventures]] and [[F-Zero GX]], before anything was finalized, ready to be deployed, and how it should be deployed. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 19:46, 5 November 2015 (CET)
=== Force 4:3 ===
:::I will put them into sandbox for the time being, if that's OK with you. [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 00:16, 7 November 2015 (CET)
These titles have a native widescreen option but, instead of changing FoV/Viewport, add black bars to the screen to "unstretch" it; requiring Force 4:3.
::::I undid your edits because the plan I have for this isn't going to go as a subsection in the main article but rather the [[Template:Infobox VG]] to make it more noticeable, kind of following the [http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/SaveGame_Manager_GX SaveGame Manager GX] example ([[Template_talk:RatingProblemFix]] for details). For sandboxing right now, [[Template:Infobox VG sandbox]]. See [[F-Zero GX/sandbox]], [[Super Smash Bros. Brawl/sandbox]], or [[Schlag den Raab/sandbox]] for what the revised infobox looks like. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 00:31, 7 November 2015 (CET)
 
:::::They're still sandbox and there is sandbox of this template available for you to continue experiment with. No one else agrees that it should go anywhere other than into the new section we've discussed in F-Zero's discussion page. It's best not to start the edit war here. What was your end goal with your edits? To get users attention about the false issues they've been experimenting with? There is another discussion regarding bringing the new section up above the problem section, that'd get more attention from the user either way. It will make the banner thing redundant and will only make the game pages inconsistency and break the flow of the article, be it on top of the game page or into the infobox. [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 01:14, 7 November 2015 (CET)
*[[Battalion Wars]]
== Not a Banner but Should be Something Better ==
*[[TMNT: Mutant Melee]]
The current form this template is taking just breaks consistency and '''will cause breaks if one misinformed editor edits on one page because it will affect all other pages that use the template as well!''' Seems like the template was created haphazardly as a Band-Aid approach to fix a '''symptom''' of a bigger underlying problem and not the problem itself. Suddenly orders are passed without understanding what kind of damage the template can do and no standardizing. I was aiming to fix consistency overall while still maintaining flow of the article so that way there is a logical data structure. I have created [[Template:WidescreenGCNTag]] to further my experimentations. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 11:03, 8 November 2015 (CET)
 
:Wait, what? The current form is WAAAAAAY better than anything else you have brought, it '''does''' provide consistency (since all GC games with native 16:9 support will have the same section title and text and as bonus categorize the page automatically without additional user input), doesn't put an ugly ad-like banner at top of the page neither in the infobox and fits perfectly well in the new Emulation Info section. - [[User:Jhonn|Jhonn]] ([[User talk:Jhonn|talk]])
This seemed fishy to me, as I'm not clear how you'd get widescreen rendering with "Force 4:3". More or less you don't. To state what's going on here more clearly. Enabling the in game widescreen option of these titles doesn't make them widescreen. Instead it shrinks the image to be 4:3 if displayed on a 16:9 display. For that to work correctly, you actually need to set things to be "Force 16:9". So though these titles have "widescreen" options, they are forced to be 4:3. I'm guessing we should just purge these from our widescreen list, but please provide feedback. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 09:32, 2 December 2015 (CET)
::OK, using <code><nowiki>=== 16:9 ===</nowiki></code> in a template is just asking for breaks. Pages already use <code><nowiki>== Stuff == === Stuff ===</nowiki></code> and should remain that way to remain consistent. Emulation information on [[F-Zero GX]] is ugly and pushes problems down the list, which problems are more vital than emulation information.
 
::I get that banners may be ugly where they are located but at least the information is where it should go because an infobox is about game information and features as 16:9 is a feature while the power-sliding glitch and custom cars glitch are not features. --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 21:01, 8 November 2015 (CET)
:Widescreen notes have been purged from these titles. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 11:52, 2 December 2015 (CET)
:::I'm not clear what you mean regarding the heading levels.
 
:::We at one point had thought about including details such as ISO size, aspect ratio support, audio ucode, etc. in the info boxes, but in general felt it would be too difficult to assign appropriately across all titles. Doing so would not just mean labeling these 60 GC games, but also assessing 4:3/16:9 support across all the Wii games. At this time no one is willing to put in the effort to do so. To really do things properly we'd also need to assess the state of the Widescreen hack across games, which actually raises an issue here. There are similar sections for games that break with the Widescreen hack but have AR codes that provide better support. Should those continue to be maintained in the "Patches" sections, or should they be revised to fit into the new "Emulation Info" ones. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 01:24, 9 November 2015 (CET)
Reply 1: As for the in-game widescreen option for battalion wars; only black bars are added to the menus and cut-scenes. In game levels are displayed in widescreen see:
::::Heading levels are for main articles only. You can template this markup, but it is very frowned upon just by any other person that uses the MediaWiki software. It's one of those cases ''just because you can doesn't mean you should''.
https://forums.dolphin-emu.org/Thread-gc-battalion-wars--26055?pid=430278#pid430278 [[User:Sam3|Sam3]] 17:57, 10 December 2016 (GMT)  
::::Maybe the infobox needs an overhaul in design to have information relevant to Dolphin instead of just general stuff, which you could find on Wikipedia (you even provide a link to the Wikipedia page). A lot of the current elements, such as publisher, controller support, etc., is something that should be in emulation information. You are welcome to try overhauling this in [[Template:Infobox VG sandbox]]. As for widescreen hack and AR codes, this is where <code><nowiki>{{Outdated|Test widescreen hack for issues. If issues exist, develop AR codes}}</nowiki></code> shines ([[:Category:Games with outdated information]])! All Wii games are 4:3 and 16:9 compliant with Nintendo's specifications. GCN games, only ~60 titles natively from what I learned. How many GCN games exist? --[[User:Wildgoosespeeder|Wildgoosespeeder]] ([[User talk:Wildgoosespeeder|talk]]) 01:40, 9 November 2015 (CET)
 
=== Auto + Force 16:9 ===
These titles provide two widescreen options, "Anamorphic" and "16:9". "Anamorphic" works fine with "Auto" AR, but "16:9" works only with "Force 4:3".
*[[SSX 3]]
*[[SSX Tricky]]
 
:<s>I think this should mean that we use the "Force 16:9" recommendation for them, since it presumably works with both modes but auto only works with the one. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 04:53, 2 December 2015 (CET)</s>
 
I've updated these titles to indicate "Force 16:9". [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 11:46, 2 December 2015 (CET)
 
: We should investigate those games further before setting force. For example, the menus of those games may still be rendered in 4:3 even with widescreen enabled (like Zelda Wind Waker with AR code). Using Auto in that case would seamlessly switch between 4:3 and 16:9 when needed, while in Force mode the menus would be stretched... - [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) 16:50, 2 December 2015 (CET)
 
::OK, got around to trying these tonight. First off we had been confused on the particular settings, I revised things to align with the actual settings. "Anamorphic" works fine with Auto AR, the "16:9" does not. "16:9" option is weird and seems to more or less output a 16:9 image on a 4:3 display. It outputs incorrectly /w Force 16:9, being stretched to thin. It outputs correctly with Force 4:3, but has black bars on all 4 sides on a widescreen display, so it's not useful. With /w auto it depends on the order you enable things, if "16:9" is activated first it outputs like Force 4:3, but if you enable "Anamorphic" first and then "16:9" it outputs like Force 16:9. I'm going to swap them back to recommending Auto, and leave a note providing details of each in game settings, since I don't think we want a third template just for these two. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 07:03, 3 December 2015 (CET)
:::I agree that we shouldn't create yet another widescreen option template for this special situation. I have two ideas that can sort these out: Add bullet beneath Widescreen Auto template explaining that there is another option exist, but the option highlighted in current template is preferred. There are just two games so why not? Second idea is to include both templates. They need to be rewritten first though so they don't look very similar and thinking the template was repeated by accident. [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 13:58, 22 December 2015 (CET)
::::NVM, overlooked that these games already have sentences continued after template. :/ Bullet or two templates then they'll become less overlooked. [[User:Lucario|Lucario]] ([[User talk:Lucario|talk]]) 14:06, 22 December 2015 (CET)
 
=== Inconsistent Widescreen ===
Just a heads up, I asked JMC47 and he tested various of those games. Something he said that I think it's important to note somewhere is that "a lot of these games won't change into widescreen until something using a widescreen viewport shows up (3D graphics, usually. Such as the character models in Soul Calibur II's menus.)". [[User:mbc07|mbc07]] ([[User talk:mbc07|talk]]) 05:30, 29 November 2015 (CET)
 
Yes, many of these titles provide widescreen output inconsistently. This usually seems related to the underlying assets not being suited for 16:9 display. I'm not clear we should worry about this. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 10:16, 2 December 2015 (CET)
 
Should boil down the above to some notes to include in the templates description. [[User:Kolano|Kolano]] ([[User talk:Kolano|talk]]) 21:04, 9 December 2016 (CET)

Latest revision as of 22:29, 6 August 2017

Auto vs Forced Review

OK, I reviewed all the remaining titles. More titles required Force 16:9 that I had hoped. Please provide commentary below if there is anything further to say here. I don't think there is though, so I plan to purge this discussion out in a few days if there is no further feedback Kolano (talk) 14:42, 2 December 2015 (CET)

Force 4:3

These titles have a native widescreen option but, instead of changing FoV/Viewport, add black bars to the screen to "unstretch" it; requiring Force 4:3.

This seemed fishy to me, as I'm not clear how you'd get widescreen rendering with "Force 4:3". More or less you don't. To state what's going on here more clearly. Enabling the in game widescreen option of these titles doesn't make them widescreen. Instead it shrinks the image to be 4:3 if displayed on a 16:9 display. For that to work correctly, you actually need to set things to be "Force 16:9". So though these titles have "widescreen" options, they are forced to be 4:3. I'm guessing we should just purge these from our widescreen list, but please provide feedback. Kolano (talk) 09:32, 2 December 2015 (CET)

Widescreen notes have been purged from these titles. Kolano (talk) 11:52, 2 December 2015 (CET)

Reply 1: As for the in-game widescreen option for battalion wars; only black bars are added to the menus and cut-scenes. In game levels are displayed in widescreen see: https://forums.dolphin-emu.org/Thread-gc-battalion-wars--26055?pid=430278#pid430278 Sam3 17:57, 10 December 2016 (GMT)

Auto + Force 16:9

These titles provide two widescreen options, "Anamorphic" and "16:9". "Anamorphic" works fine with "Auto" AR, but "16:9" works only with "Force 4:3".

I think this should mean that we use the "Force 16:9" recommendation for them, since it presumably works with both modes but auto only works with the one. Kolano (talk) 04:53, 2 December 2015 (CET)

I've updated these titles to indicate "Force 16:9". Kolano (talk) 11:46, 2 December 2015 (CET)

We should investigate those games further before setting force. For example, the menus of those games may still be rendered in 4:3 even with widescreen enabled (like Zelda Wind Waker with AR code). Using Auto in that case would seamlessly switch between 4:3 and 16:9 when needed, while in Force mode the menus would be stretched... - mbc07 (talk) 16:50, 2 December 2015 (CET)
OK, got around to trying these tonight. First off we had been confused on the particular settings, I revised things to align with the actual settings. "Anamorphic" works fine with Auto AR, the "16:9" does not. "16:9" option is weird and seems to more or less output a 16:9 image on a 4:3 display. It outputs incorrectly /w Force 16:9, being stretched to thin. It outputs correctly with Force 4:3, but has black bars on all 4 sides on a widescreen display, so it's not useful. With /w auto it depends on the order you enable things, if "16:9" is activated first it outputs like Force 4:3, but if you enable "Anamorphic" first and then "16:9" it outputs like Force 16:9. I'm going to swap them back to recommending Auto, and leave a note providing details of each in game settings, since I don't think we want a third template just for these two. Kolano (talk) 07:03, 3 December 2015 (CET)
I agree that we shouldn't create yet another widescreen option template for this special situation. I have two ideas that can sort these out: Add bullet beneath Widescreen Auto template explaining that there is another option exist, but the option highlighted in current template is preferred. There are just two games so why not? Second idea is to include both templates. They need to be rewritten first though so they don't look very similar and thinking the template was repeated by accident. Lucario (talk) 13:58, 22 December 2015 (CET)
NVM, overlooked that these games already have sentences continued after template. :/ Bullet or two templates then they'll become less overlooked. Lucario (talk) 14:06, 22 December 2015 (CET)

Inconsistent Widescreen

Just a heads up, I asked JMC47 and he tested various of those games. Something he said that I think it's important to note somewhere is that "a lot of these games won't change into widescreen until something using a widescreen viewport shows up (3D graphics, usually. Such as the character models in Soul Calibur II's menus.)". mbc07 (talk) 05:30, 29 November 2015 (CET)

Yes, many of these titles provide widescreen output inconsistently. This usually seems related to the underlying assets not being suited for 16:9 display. I'm not clear we should worry about this. Kolano (talk) 10:16, 2 December 2015 (CET)

Should boil down the above to some notes to include in the templates description. Kolano (talk) 21:04, 9 December 2016 (CET)

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